Do you know the answers?

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  • #7283
    WMS brother
    Participant

    Perhaps if the people of this forum are so wise and learned in Christ. So very wise and learned in history. So sure that all of the WMSCOG interpretations are wrong and boasting you were able to discount them at every turn.

    Then surely, such people with a clear understanding of the truth, can teach ME.

    Reveal to me then, the secrets of God, show me the deep mysteries revealed from the Sealed Scroll. For surely you must have the wisdom of the holy spirit, and can prophecy and answer all things as saints of God.

    What does the Sealed Scroll in Revelations contain?

    Who is the Root of David?

    Tell me what is Christ's New Name, for isn't written he will have a New Name?

    Tell me which nation God is referring to, when he declares a man will come from the east?

    Tell me what the holy spirit will be teaching us in the last days?

    Tell me, since God commands us to find King David in the last days, who is he?

    Tell me, since God promised that the entire world would be corrupted by Satan, exactly when and where did that happen?

    Answer me, what is the nation which comes after Babylon?

    What is the nation that comes after that nation?

    What is the nation which comes after that nation, the one that has ten horns?

    Which nation is the one that defeated three other kingdoms for religous purposes, while also building a new soverign land for a boastful man who pretends to be god?

    Which nation has oppressed the saints of God for a time time and half of a time?

    Which nation has changed the set time and laws of God?

    Those examples and clues all come from the same nation, so surely you can tell me which nation it is?

    Since I want to avoid the beast and Devil, can you tell me what they used to replace true teachings with?

    Jesus says that the sign of the fig tree will mark his coming and the end of the age, can you tell me what is the Fig tree?

    Can you tell me what the bible means when it says that before the end, during the time of the fig tree, the sky will roll up like a scroll?

    During what event in history were islands and mountains beset with such a great explosion?

    Can you list for me all the churches which are Weeds in Jesus examples, and which ones are Wheat?

    Can you tell me why God wants to destroy the earth for all of its wickedness?

    Can you tell me what possessed Jesus to rebuke Christians who believe in him and call them Lawless Ones?

    Can you tell me how it is that I am not saved merely by believing in Jesus, and calling on his name like those Lawless examples?

    If I need to do more than just believe, then how much faith must I have?

    If I need to do works along with my faith, then which works and how many?

    When God says that in the last day his own people have violated the covenant, what does he mean?

    Can you tell me why Satan could flying to heaven as an angel with great power, after the garden of eden, during the time of Job?

    Can you tell me exactly which moment in history Satan lost all authority and was cast down to the earth?

    When did the great war in heaven take place?

    Who is the church John in revelations is talking to, when he says "you have forgotten your first love"?

    Why were people arguing about the date of Jesus' ressurection when it was clearly passover 14th, unleavened bread 15th, ressurection 16th?

    Why did people argue over such a simple fact, and why did they replace real and actual dates with fake man-made dates?

    Why do people make the excuse that because they are honoring Jesus, the actual dates don't matter anymore?

    Why were the man-made dates chosen, coincidentally chosen to be dates of Pagan holidays?

    Why would someone who believes in Christ wish to appoint holy days duting such a blatantly controversial time?

    What level of negligence lead to the Early Church forgetting how to read a clendar?

    Who was the first person to preach a different gospel and what was that different Gospel?

    Who started the arguments over doctrines?

    Why was all authority given to Anicetus and not Polycarp?

    Why did anyone care about the opinions of someone who argued with Polycarp?

    How many different denominations of Christianity were there in the early church?

    Besides Arianism, Messianic Jews, Quartodecimanism, The Nazarenes, The Nazarene Sect, The Roman Church, how many other denominations existed in such a time of great controversy?

    How do you know that the denomination which rose to power was in truth the original denomination of Christ?

    Why were all those other denominations of Christ killed off, put in prison, tortured, put in salt mines, put in regular mines, or exiled?

    Why would a church which belongs to Christ commit such atrocities?

    What are the seven thunders, and why are there exactly seven of them?

    Why is seven the perfect number, is there a connection between seven days and seven feasts and the rest of the 7 thousandth year?

    If God is truth, and carbon dating has decent enough accuracy to show us pottery and ruins from biblical lore, then why does that same truthful technology not then agree with creationists when human bones are found predating 6,000bc?

    Is God wrong, or is the interpretation wrong?

    If the Roman Catholic church is not the Beast which changed God's set times and laws, then which other nation has its church membership in government whom did also change God's set times and laws and whom did opress the saints even imprisoning them or martying them?

    Then God warns Ezekiel that members of his very of Church of God will, in the future, bow down to Tammuz; who is he talking about, where will it happen, how will it happen, and when will that happen, or has it already happened?

    I have many many questions more, years worth of deep thinking and revelations from God. But surely you can satisfy these questions of mine.

    Surely none of you will have differing answers, as surely there is only one true gospel, and anyone who preaches a different Gospel may be eternally condemned.

    For I am not impressed by the logic or faith of this website, nor with its jeering, bad attitudes, and slander. Nor with its membership, whom profess knowledge, yet bicker even among themselves.

    Satisfy my questions then, as only those in the last days who have recived Christ can.

  • #59580

    Smurf
    Participant

    TL;DR

    You seem to know the answers to these questions and yet… you are here 🙂

    #59581

    Simon
    Participant

    No one. claims to know all

    #59582

    Cephas' Brother
    Participant

    My brother, please don’t take offense to this, but have you read the WHOLE bible? Not just the red letters, or the snippets of scripture they’ve given you at the COG or any other churches you’ve attended, but the entire thing. I only ask because I find that a large percentage of folks just haven’t.

    Not to dismiss your questions, but they’ve all been answered on this site or Genny’s blog. I take it you disagree. There’s some of it I disagree with too. If you really, really want to seek the answers to your questions and find the truth, start digging. Get outside your comfort zone. Read as many different viewpoints as you can. If you don’t mind me offering a book, I’d reccomend Karen Armstrong’s “A history of God”. She only deals with the abrahamic faiths, and doesn’t really espouse any dogmatic viewpoint. You may not find exactly the answers you’re looking for, but it’s a good start.

    I can’t remember who said it, but I always found this quote to be spot on.

    “You can always trust a person seeking the truth, but never the one that’s found it.”

    Good luck my friend.

    #59583

    WMS brother
    Participant

    Smurf

    I am here because there are members of this forum which have pointed out some of the flaws in logic and faith used here.

    I pray that it is exposed in full, so they can see exactly which churches hail from man-made teachings, and which churches come from Christ.

    It upsets me every day that I know that this site even exists tricking people into believing misrepresented facts and fundamental truths which are ignored.

    It upsets me even more that this website is actually on the first page of google, villifying anyone who dares to enjoy their freedom of religion.

    Simon

    Christ does, and the Apostles by proxy do as well. To ignore seeking the truth simply because it is more convenient to feign ignorance, is telling of the character of a man who then says out of that same mouth "I love Christ".

    Cephas' Brother

    What do you think we do every sabbath day? What do you think we do every worship day? What do you think we do, day in and day out even on our own time coming to the church for hours, if not the entire day, simply to pour over the bible and give joyful praise to the wisdom of Christ?

    It would be boasting for me to say that I do know all the bible, and surely I cannot recite it all from memory.

    Yet it would be a lie to say that I don't have the beginning of every instruction bookmarked, every teaching referenced in a library of sermon books. It would be a lie to say that I don't have twenty, or even more, bookmarks in my browser to sources about historical facts.

    Do you think I have not already researched many things outside of my comfort zone?

    Do you not know that I used to be buddhist, then baptist, then pagan even trying to research magic because I desperately wanted to know what is the the force controlling this universe and how can I beg for its blessings?

    I cannot say that I have tried everything, but I have tried enough to preach boldly which worked and which did not. I can also preach boldly that fundamental truths in Christ and history have been ignored.

    For it remains, simply and plainly, that the lawless one must come.

    Who was that person in history?

    It remains that Jesus rebukes his own followers, calling someone of them even lawless ones, and evil ones.

    Who were those people in history?

    It remains that God gives a stern warning that his own followers have broken his covenant in the last days.

    What is it about the covenant that we have broken?

    It remains that Satan has at some point in time, lead the entire world astray.

    What was that point in time?

    If baptism in the way commonly believed granted you salvation, it would not be written that the entire world was astray.

    If Sunday worship of Christ granted you salvation, it would not be written that the entire world was astray.

    If loving Jesus alone was enough for you salvation, it would not be written that the entire world was astray.

    If communion granted you forgiveness and eternal life, it would not be written that the entire world was astray.

    Rather, it becomes abundandly and crystal clear, that there exists a non-zero element of time, where even all of theese practices put together were not enough to save a man. Every man woman and child on the earth, the entire world indeed, was lead astray.

    Jesus warned about the coming of the weeds, yet that warning is ignored.

    Daniel warned about the coming of the beast, yet that warning is ignored.

    The apostles warned that in their own time members and church leaders were actually perverting the truth and not to listen to different gospel, yet that warnign is ignored.

    You have to ignore great and many sections of the bible to come to the conclusion that the common doctrines of Christianity do anything other than lead away from Christ, and in fact into the evil one.

    I do not hold the prophecies in contempt, yet there are others who also choose to ignore that as well in addition to everything else I've already said.

    If you cannot identify the nation of the beast, then plain and simply, you cannot identify the difference between the true gospels and the fake ones.

    #59584

    Simon
    Participant

    WMS brother wrote:

    Simon

    Christ does,

    when Christ is a member of the forum that comment will be relevent

    and the Apostles by proxy do as well.

    if that were true then the same statement will apply the apostles aren't members either…

    To ignore seeking the truth simply because it is more convenient to feign ignorance, is telling of the character of a man who then says out of that same mouth "I love Christ".

    no one is saying we should ignore seeking truth. If that is your inferrence from what people are saying you need to read what we say more carefully.

     

    The problem is if we are wrong on a zillion things we can rectify it by continual studdying if WMSCOG is wrong on just ONE they cannot rectify themselves (even with the true things they say)

     

    we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water but we shouldn't keep the bath water either

    #59585

    Disturbed
    Participant

    WMS Brother I sympathize with you. There comes a point when you have to question things going on in Zion. I have just recently left. I was bothered by all they”rebuttal” videos coming from mother. Why does God need to make rebuttal videos and counter measures? The church has told many lies which are slowing being exposed with evidence. The church said ASH never preached about the end of the world, yet evidence has proven he gave three failed prophecies (1988, 1999/2000, & 2012). The church lied when they said ASH & Zhang were married and had no children, when in fact they were married to others and children with their spouses. The church hasn’t mentioned that ASH’s son runs the church he (ASH) founded-NCPCOG. Actually WMSCOG came about after the death of ASH because WMSCOG wanted to worship mother even though ASH wrote the book saying that Jerusalem IS NOT a person but a place where the 144,000 will go. I mean the list goes on & on. Even the documentation for the church says the founder of WMSCOG is General Pastor. I thought ASH was the founder. I’m just saying. Look at the proof.

    God doesn’t need to lie to His faithful followers. Whether its one lie or numerous lies…it is not of God. Why does the church hide ASH’s books from us and translate only the preface? Yeah something about only for our salvation right? Actually WMSCOG doesn’t have the rights to publish ANY of ASH’s books. His son at NCPCOG holds those rights. Suspicious to you yet?

    I pray that you will continue to seek the real truth. Also why are the members told not to speak to anyone that leaves? Is that the love of God? Don’t we want all of our brothers & sisters to receive salvation? How can they be saved if we cut them off. Please think logically about all things. I know it’s scary to think about leaving. I was scared too. I mean who wants to lose their salvation? You may find that you will lose your salvation if you stay. Staying in WMSCOG is in direct violation of God’s law. Please brother, keep seeking the truth and the True & Living God will reveal all things.

    #59586

    WMS brother
    Participant

    Simon

    You cannot begin to argue that even a single thing in our church is wrong, without knowledge of who is right or wrong to begin with.

    Tell me then, which nation in history is the beast, so I can avoid their doctrines?

    If we are so wrong about the pope, then can you tell me which other man spoke with the authority of God and put people to death?

    Who opressed the saints for a time time and half a time?

    Which kings were killed in fulfillment of the three kings?

    Which denomination of Christanity rose to power?

    How do you know they are legitimate?

    Who then are the weeds Jesus spoke of?

    Who then is the lawless one?

    What then were the names of the religious leaders Apostle Paul warned were falling away and preaching different Gospels?

    When you can answer theese questions, then I will listen to your wise advice about how we are wrong. Until then, you literally do not know what your talking about.

    Disturbed

    "There comes a point when you have to question things going on in Zion."

    When I was new in the truth, I put all of those questions to the test. In fact I used to persecute many wmscog members for how wildly unbelievable it all seemed from the standpoint of a non-believer.

    But unlike non-believers I recognize fundamental truths which cannot be ignored.

    There is a reason why people began to argue about the extremely simple dates: 14th, 15th, and 16th.

    There is a reason why people had to institute man-made holidays.

    There is a reason why the church at the time, with support of the government, shut down all dissenters by killing them in cold blood. Even going so far as to making war with other kingdoms over religion.

    When you examine why and how theese things happened, you can understand which ministry is of Christ, and which is not.

    #59587

    Disturbed
    Participant

    WMS brother….please re-read my post. I am not debating scripture with you. Why is the church trying so hard to cover up the lies they’ve told about ASH?

    Also, they know historians have many dates regarding Ostrogoths. What was their answer for that? It was, ” the dates given by historians don’t matter. The only opinion that matters about the date is ASH was the church’s response.

    The only truth I feel comfortable with is the Sabbath. I haven’t begun to figure out the rest. That will come with time (for me).

    Also, what does the church do with the tithes & offerings it receives? I was told it all goes to mother in Korea. Now the church is back pedaling on that. They now say they are all independent entities and not under controlled by the head church in Korea. Plus if they sent all the money to Korea that might actually create a legal problem. So then the question remains…what do they do with the tithes & offerings? The church actually brings in millions of dollars. Look at the thread concerning where do the tithes & offerings go.

    Like I said, please think logically about all things. You are committing idolatry against God by worshipping Zhang. If there was a mother Jesus would have told us. If ASH was truly the 2CC he would have told us about her. Instead he wrote 25 books and only 1 book in 1984 before he passed away spoke about the bride-that the bride is the church. The very same thing people in the street tell us when we’re out preaching. I thought they were misguided until I read the whole book ASH wrote.

    Also if ASH is the 2CC how could Um Sooin look in his bag & take notes concerning the bride? Even Jesus knew he would be betrayed and he spoke about it BEFORE it happened. ASH did not make extensive preparations about mother because he said there is no mother. If his mission was to come to earth to reveal her he would have written many books about her so we could fully understand.

    #59588

    WMS brother
    Participant

    Disturbed

    If you feel comfortable about the sabbath, then I dare say all of the events in history which followed should be a blazing neon sign for which doctrines were right, and which doctrines were set up by the men who opposed the sabbath in favor of The Lord's Day.

    I could answer your other questions, but until we have a firm foundation of common beliefs, "they are God because everything is happening perfectly accoriding to prophecy" will have no weight with you.

    You cannot judge prophecy without understanding both the identity of the enemy, and all of the true customs of Christ which were put down.

    For to someone who keeps communion monthly, would they believe "the passover is the sign of David's covenant?" No, they would say passover on the 14th day is wrong and they already have the flesh and blood of Christ. Even if we in the church call that "a different Gospel".

    If you do not believe in the customs we belive in, then absolutely nothing else will make sense to you.

    Perhaps another time we will be at that point. Ciao.

    #59589

    Disturbed
    Participant

    WMS brother. I will pray for you. Like I said I was a member-a long time member at that. I once believed in everything you hold dear. Unfortunately I found out that a lot of their doctrine is man made and it changes at whim when someone points out a flaw. There will come a time, soon I hope, that you will know & understand that ASH & Zhang are not god. God doesn’t commit adultery with His children. God wouldn’t come to this earth worshipping a false god (Buddha) for 30 years before being baptized in a SDA church. He didn’t preach Passover for 37 years. I know all of the studies/prophecies you are talking about (whom does the bible testify about, coming from the east, 7 churches, seal of god, etc…). ASH didn’t fulfill the prophecies as WMSCOG claims. He never claimed to be god. Jesus told us many times that He and the Father are one. ASH did not. On his tombstone it is written he came as Elijah (yeah, yeah WMSCOG says it means God Jehovah). At the end of the day ASH took many man made teachings from other religions/churches/doctrines and the WMSCOG added mother and there you go-new teaching. Anyway I have learned that while I was in the church we always told people we were non denominational Christians when in fact the church claims they aren’t even Christian. I ask that you humble yourself and realize we aren’t attacking you but merely trying to help you. Please open your eyes and see the facts as they are outside of what the church tells you to think. Use your own mind (something they prohibit).

    #59590

    Simon
    Participant

    Your questions are irrelevance

    #59591

    Simon
    Participant

    Ultimately just an irrelevant strawman. argument

    #59592

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    I think what it boils down to is you guys dont even have the correct answers yourselves so how can you point out what is right and wrong. If thats not your point wmsbrother then sorry.

    #59593

    Simon
    Participant

    Invalid argument

    #59594

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Why is that? If you dont know the answer then how could you profess to know what is true and what isnt also a verry good point is you should know the answer if you are truly gods chosen.

    #59595

    Simon
    Participant

    You need to study logic

    #59596

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Logically if you dont have the facts to reach tthe conclusion you cant say you know what is false

    #59597

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Simon you have learn how to say more than one line

    #59598

    Simon
    Participant

    Deduction doesn’t require knowing truth to see that something is false

    #59599

    emil
    Participant

    Your questions are too numerous for anyone to care to answer the,m. Would be good if you can limit them to between 5 and 10. When you ask a question, please specify the scripture verse on the basiss of which you ask.

    WMS brother wrote:

    Perhaps if the people of this forum are so wise and learned in Christ. So very wise and learned in history. So sure that all of the WMSCOG interpretations are wrong and boasting you were able to discount them at every turn.

    Then surely, such people with a clear understanding of the truth, can teach ME.

    Reveal to me then, the secrets of God, show me the deep mysteries revealed from the Sealed Scroll. For surely you must have the wisdom of the holy spirit, and can prophecy and answer all things as saints of God.

    What does the Sealed Scroll in Revelations contain?

    No man knows. It will be revealed in the end days

    Who is the Root of David?

    Jesus

    Tell me what is Christ's New Name, for isn't written he will have a New Name?

    Where does it say Christ will have a new name? If you are referring to Rev chapters 2 and 3, there is no reason to believe that John is talking about a new name for Christ. It is the new name that will be given for the one who is victorious in the situation of that particular church described by John. You will notice that the patriarch's in the OT were given a new name which signified something about their accomplishment. 

    Tell me which nation God is referring to, when he declares a man will come from the east?

    Are you talking about Isaiah? Which specific chapter and verse? One I am aware of is Cyrus the king of Persia who was likened to a bird of prey because of the swiftness with which his army attacked.

    Tell me what the holy spirit will be teaching us in the last days?

    We will know in the last days. If he has to teach it, it obviously means we don't already know about it.

    Tell me, since God commands us to find King David in the last days, who is he?

    Which verse and chapter? Once again you are forcing the assumption tat we are in the last days.

    Tell me, since God promised that the entire world would be corrupted by Satan, exactly when and where did that happen?

    Once again you are forcing the assumption tat we are in the last days.

    Answer me, what is the nation which comes after Babylon?

    What is the nation that comes after that nation?

    What is the nation which comes after that nation, the one that has ten horns?

    Which nation is the one that defeated three other kingdoms for religous purposes, while also building a new soverign land for a boastful man who pretends to be god?

    Which nation has oppressed the saints of God for a time time and half of a time?

    Pray do visit the "Evidence regarding Antichrist…." thread and lets hear what you have to say about the proof that Genny has provided about your wmscog interpretation, which BTW is a copy/paste of the SDA.

    Now you answer:

    Where has ASH claimed to be God? Please give irrefutable proof and don't resort to hidden secrets.

    Where has he claimed that ZGJ is Mother God? Please give irrefutable proof and don't resort to hidden secrets.

    How can you elevate as gods the persons who married each other (assuming they did) while they were still married to another?

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