Did Heavenly Mother pass away?

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  • #7815
    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Did she? Did she pass away? I really really suspect she died and the church is covering it up. The church doesn't earnestly pray Mother's suffering, to finish the gospel, find the last brothers and sisters anymore. Why? Does anybody have any info about this?

    The church themes have changed. 

  • #68972

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Azula wrote:

    Mayor and Mike wrote:

    She doesn't say she is god. Not once, not ever. All the people below her say she is god. We all are told we are going to meet god before we go to Korea….

    I do not mean to take the above words out of context but I just want to highlight the sophistication of this cult by the point mentioned here. It truly goes to show how complex the structure is because despite the fact that mama z never publicly comes out she never rebukes any person who might try to worship her or write songs about her.

    Just goes to show the kind of evil we're dealing with here.

     I agree Azula. @Mayor and Mike:  You seem to want to believe that Mother is a good person, and I can understand that after being in the habit of revering her for so long that you can't flip a switch and not have any feelings for this woman just like that. It probably is better that you realize things a little at a time.  All at once would probably be like falling off a skyscraper.

    However, consider this:

    Joo Cheol Kim gave a sermon where he said,"The cornerstone of our church is belief in God the Mother."  (He works very closely with her, does he not?   If she doesn't say she is God, why would she allow him to promote that she is? )

    Also, why have I seen banners in the churches promoting her as God the Mother?  Doesn't she know that the banners are there?  Oh please. 

    She has actually told people in audience with her whether or not a loved one is going to heaven.  It is pretty hilarious because she told one guy his wife was going to heaven, and the wife doesn't believe in God the Mother, doesn't attend church, doesn't preach, and was thoroughly disgusted with the whole thing!  I personally wondered how they explained this away since they told her husband he had to do everything perfectly or he couldn't go, Lol! 

    Then there is the Bible Institute where the existence of God the Mother was supposedly proved by scientific evidence in 2013.  This was at the Come and Go Institute in Korea, right in the Mother's own land.  She didn't know about that? 

    Anyway . . . . . .

    #68973

    Kai TIng
    Participant

    Oh regarding deity, does it really matter if she did not claim to be one? People in the wmscog view her as god, they treat her as god, they teach members that she is god, and if it is a question regarding whether she herself is aware of that…of course she does! If not what about special made videos of encouragement? And people flying from all over the globe to see her face to face? What is all this about "we love mother" stuff? 

    If she does not live under a rock she will know that people in the wmscog view her as god, and by not doing anything she is accepting that title as it is

    #68974

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Kai TIng wrote:

    Oh regarding deity, does it really matter if she did not claim to be one? People in the wmscog view her as god, they treat her as god, they teach members that she is god, and if it is a question regarding whether she herself is aware of that…of course she does! If not what about special made videos of encouragement? And people flying from all over the globe to see her face to face? What is all this about "we love mother" stuff? 

    If she does not live under a rock she will know that people in the wmscog view her as god, and by not doing anything she is accepting that title as it is

     Exactly.  It doesn't matter.  She knows. And she is accepting being worshipped in place of God.  I would not want to be in her place on judgment day.

    #68975

    jw03550
    Participant

    setufree wrote:

    J.w. I appreciate where you are coming from, but for some of us it's hard to not be angry.

    I hear you setufree

    from a fly-by-view of this planet:

    some people think that this country gets a lot of the world's resources as a result of military might.  assuming that's true,

    if someone can use their physical strength to take things from others, then

    why cant another person use their smarts to take from others?

    as Dr. Singer, and other experts, state, to lead a group (often labeled cult) the leader has to be ok with the low ethics of it.  from that standpoint I'm in the same boat as you-all.  we know how the system works, and that it works, we just cant bring ourselvs to take advantage

    #68976

    japchaeforlife
    Participant

    Mayor and Mike wrote:

    Brian Taylor, did you say there were devils pulling your eye lids shut? Huh? There were devils in zion? devils there with you during worship service? Devils in church? Thats not good. That's really really not good. That could explain some things in my zion.

    didnt they tell members that no unclean soul can enter zion? then how can a devil be in zion to tempt the sleepy members? :/ 

    #68977

    japchaeforlife
    Participant

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

    Interesting the way this thread evolved.  Former members of WMSCOG have left for many different reasons, but one commonality for many is fatigue, or burn out.  The demands WMSCOG handlers put on members can be quite onerous, not to mention expensive.  Seems those who donate big get treated a little easier on the "time commitment" requirements. But for many, particularly younger members just getting a start in life, the time requirements of meetings, festivals, holy days, recruitment, etc etc can be quite exhaustive. 

    What you're saying here is hitting the nail on the head. The interesting thing is that the WMS calls it "running out of the oil of faith" ( matthew:25). They have an explanation to rationalize just about everything they do no matter how atrocious….

    LOL on this one. This one totally described my experience with wmscog. Tired? Fatigue? Burn out? Is there even a word to describe what kind of physical state I had during those times? 

    I kinda notice this one too. We have a seaman members who give large amount for our zion. I feel hurt at the way our leaders would treat them!!! They are the ones to eat first, they get large portions of food, they are not encouraged to preach for many hours, the way they talk to them is very nice and calm (unlike to young gospel workers who dont give much for the zion). I remember because I wasnt used in cleaning our house, I was often being shouted by our preacher because I dont know how to clean in zion LOL. They just like shouting at you whenever you make mistakes and they like making you feel bad for not doing your best.

    MONEY  > PEOPLE

    If you OFFERED WELL, you have excuse. If you didnt, you have to pay PHYSICAL WORK. 

    #68978

    MountainMom
    Participant

    @Japchae:  Exactly.  My son is a treasured member because he probably gives more than anyone else in his zion.  Well, at least he used to.  I really don't know anymore.  But I know that at one time he was giving ridiculous amounts, and they treated him like a superstar.

    #68979

    MountainMom
    Participant

    japchaeforlife wrote:

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

    Interesting the way this thread evolved.  Former members of WMSCOG have left for many different reasons, but one commonality for many is fatigue, or burn out.  The demands WMSCOG handlers put on members can be quite onerous, not to mention expensive.  Seems those who donate big get treated a little easier on the "time commitment" requirements. But for many, particularly younger members just getting a start in life, the time requirements of meetings, festivals, holy days, recruitment, etc etc can be quite exhaustive. 

    What you're saying here is hitting the nail on the head. The interesting thing is that the WMS calls it "running out of the oil of faith" ( matthew:25). They have an explanation to rationalize just about everything they do no matter how atrocious….

    LOL on this one. This one totally described my experience with wmscog. Tired? Fatigue? Burn out? Is there even a word to describe what kind of physical state I had during those times? 

    I kinda notice this one too. We have a seaman members who give large amount for our zion. I feel hurt at the way our leaders would treat them!!! They are the ones to eat first, they get large portions of food, they are not encouraged to preach for many hours, the way they talk to them is very nice and calm (unlike to young gospel workers who dont give much for the zion). I remember because I wasnt used in cleaning our house, I was often being shouted by our preacher because I dont know how to clean in zion LOL. They just like shouting at you whenever you make mistakes and they like making you feel bad for not doing your best.

    MONEY  > PEOPLE

    If you OFFERED WELL, you have excuse. If you didnt, you have to pay PHYSICAL WORK. 

     

    I know of one guy who had a great job, moving up the ladder in his corporation on the fast track.  His career was on the rise.  Then he became a member of the Wms.  All the factors you speak of concerning fatigue and burn out set in, and his job suffered.  One thing besides the fatigue is the de motivation that occurred since he thought the world was ending.  He said his job, paying bills, etc., none of that was important anymore, just saving souls.   I can't say he lost his job(s) because of his involvement in the Wms.  But I submit to you, if you are so fatigued you can't think straight, so anxiety ridden because the world is about to end, and you have a high stress demanding job that you put on the back burner, that job is going to suffer.  And it is going to be noticed by a lot of people.  If people you work with say you look exhausted every day, well . . . . .you can't be in very good physical shape or presenting yourself well in the workplace. 

     

    I have heard from another mother in the jersey area that her son walked out on his computer engineering job because of the church. Another career derailed. Not only that, but the church had him move to another state and at my last contact, she no longer knew where he was.  She said this kid was the best son ever, and that they had a very close relationship before.  That breaks my heart.  And I have heard this type of story over and over.  There is just no denying the heartbreak and the damage. 

    #68980

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    This conversation has gone quite far with many topics. I’m glad to read all your input.

    I agree with most of these comments.

    So she was disgusted by the whole thing and he had to be perfect or he would go to heaven? Oh boy. Poor guy….

    Ya, no. Mayor and Mike will not be falling from great heights for no Korean lies. From all the lies I’ve been told from this church, it seems to me and it is my opinion that lies are their native language.

    Going to Korea and seeing all this really throws me in a loop. These church members will do anything to support the position of a mother god. But it’s all a lie. I can’t believe it.

    Its sad some people with give up their good jobs or their families to run after this church. If only they could see what they were doing. It makes me feel sad.

    #68981

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Mayor and Mike wrote:

    This conversation has gone quite far with many topics. I'm glad to read all your input.

    I agree with most of these comments.

    So she was disgusted by the whole thing and he had to be perfect or he would go to heaven? Oh boy. Poor guy….

    Ya, no. Mayor and Mike will not be falling from great heights for no Korean lies. From all the lies I've been told from this church, it seems to me and it is my opinion that lies are their native language.

    Going to Korea and seeing all this really throws me in a loop. These church members will do anything to support the position of a mother god. But it's all a lie. I can't believe it.

    Its sad some people with give up their good jobs or their families to run after this church. If only they could see what they were doing. It makes me feel sad.

     They will see clearly what this church is if we warn them before they are subject to the manipulations.  It is easily seen through, and no one who is fully informed will become a member.  At least no one has that I have warned.  It is the deception that gets the new recruit.  Prevention is the answer.  I mean, if someone wants to go into this after hearing what it is really about, then I consider it freedom of religion, and so be it.  But if they are manipulated  and not given the full story, then I consider it deception.  I have no respect for the leaders of a group that preys on people to recruit them, and then uses fear, guilt, and deception to keep them there.

    #68982

    japchaeforlife
    Participant

    MountainMom wrote:

    @Japchae:  Exactly.  My son is a treasured member because he probably gives more than anyone else in his zion.  Well, at least he used to.  I really don't know anymore.  But I know that at one time he was giving ridiculous amounts, and they treated him like a superstar.

    SUPERSTAR? Hahaahaha. Yea the rich members are zions' superstars. 

    I feel bad for your son… I hope he'll notice this. But as you said he may be giving more than anyone else so maybe he'll never get mistreated by this church. 

    #68983

    Abhigail Delema
    Participant

     Seems those who donate big get treated a little easier on the "time commitment" requirements. 

    Here in mumbai zion all decon and deconness have position only by giving a lot of money to the church.I know of a missionary (female) in zion who tells members what she has donated like air conditions, money etc.Even though many members are against her rude behaviour and have written letters to mother about her rude behaviour no action has been taken for years ,but we seen her being lifted up in zion.Another decon from satacruz claims he sold his house and gave 2 lac ruppes in offering, today we can see his family being given position like wife also is a deconess ,also given a chance to preside and pray during worship.Plus daughter allowed to play the piano and marraige in RC church hall over looked and also they recive freedom to quietly go for picnics with members.Same with a deconees who his from Marine lines gives tithes of 5000 rupees above every month and good offerings she is given position of large group leader and is allowed to go on vacation when ever she likes even missing the sabbath worship she is allowed to pray by herself at the appointed time, but normal members who cant afford to give so much are deprived of going on vacation being reminded that father will come any time,and also mothers love and sacrifice.There is also a missionary in Goa India who retired from his service early and offered a lot money and was given a chance to be the head of the church .Rest of the youth here who have got married to koreans have recived positions and are running churches in India in diffrent places paying the price of vasatomy,i really have the list going on and i would really like to put their names in.Basicaly as you all said above it is money that matters and everything is over looked.

    #68984

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Mountain mom, I have a problem with their deception too. Its cultural I think. They all deceive each other. They fly over seas and use their deceptive means here. I think they are programmed that way. They are all about appearances and we know what appearances can be…

    I think if you are not informed, then it’s easier to get into the church. I entered the church for my own reasons. I was uninformed. I didn’t know anything about the church. But I wanted to check it out. I checked it out and got the full exposure. The full exposure just without a korean marriage. In a way I’m glad I joined. I received some good experiences. I learned a lot. I mean a lot. And now I’m happy to be out.

    Now how do you prevent people from entering? We know they are out recruit day and night. At least we can spread the word.

    If we knew if Heavenly passed away, the truth would help us.

    I suspect she was diagnosed with cancer summer of 2013. And I suspect she passed away early 2014. But of course we don’t know. I’m sorry if it’s true. I don’t wish her dead. But I would be happy to have the truth because maybe all these lies and deceptive means could come to an end. Maybe we can have a good rest from this.

    #68985

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Mayor and Mike wrote:

    Mountain mom, I have a problem with their deception too. Its cultural I think. They all deceive each other. They fly over seas and use their deceptive means here. I think they are programmed that way. They are all about appearances and we know what appearances can be…

    I think if you are not informed, then it's easier to get into the church. I entered the church for my own reasons. I was uninformed. I didn't know anything about the church. But I wanted to check it out. I checked it out and got the full exposure. The full exposure just without a korean marriage. In a way I'm glad I joined. I received some good experiences. I learned a lot. I mean a lot. And now I'm happy to be out.

    Now how do you prevent people from entering? We know they are out recruit day and night. At least we can spread the word.

    If we knew if Heavenly passed away, the truth would help us.

    I suspect she was diagnosed with cancer summer of 2013. And I suspect she passed away early 2014. But of course we don't know. I'm sorry if it's true. I don't wish her dead. But I would be happy to have the truth because maybe all these lies and deceptive means could come to an end. Maybe we can have a good rest from this.

     She is still alive.  We will get word from someone over there in South Korea if she passes, I am sure.  Last we checked, she was still alive. 

    #68986

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Hmm… they have me wondering. But ok mountain mom.

    #68987

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Abhigail. So money talks in “holy zion” does it? Seems like every zion has different issues. Thanks for sharing.

    #68988

    Love'n Honey
    Participant

    I wish her dead, that's for sure. But I would deemed evil for wishing such things. Yet, the Most High is on His way to killing for her horrible deeds. That is if He hasn't already..

    #68989

    Shugyo
    Participant

    I have said this a few times myself. 

    Who is the most high Love n Honey? 

    #68990

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Love n honey is not living up to to her name. Don’t say it. You be nice too. Judgement day is coming. I just want the lie to end. I’ll have to wait for her passing.

    #68991

    Love'n Honey
    Participant

    Shugyo wrote:

    I have said this a few times myself. 

    Who is the most high Love n Honey? 

    The Most High God. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The only God who has any power at all.

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