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Did she? Did she pass away? I really really suspect she died and the church is covering it up. The church doesn't earnestly pray Mother's suffering, to finish the gospel, find the last brothers and sisters anymore. Why? Does anybody have any info about this?
The church themes have changed.
I dont wish anyone dead either. After doing some research, I’ve concluded Zhang is as misguided as Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, and other Cults. In hindsight, I think they were a church originally that loved their pastor, and then deified him. I have one question; When I first joined, the overseer told me that the Original members didnt recognize Ahn as God, til he “ascended”. 8months ago we watched a video where Zhang was reminiscing over the early church years and told a story of how a member and members called him “Father” when he was alive.
UntouchableJ wrote:
I dont wish anyone dead either. After doing some research, I've concluded Zhang is as misguided as Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, and other Cults. In hindsight, I think they were a church originally that loved their pastor, and then deified him. I have one question; When I first joined, the overseer told me that the Original members didnt recognize Ahn as God, til he "ascended". 8months ago we watched a video where Zhang was reminiscing over the early church years and told a story of how a member and members called him "Father" when he was alive.
So whose fault is it then? You've just absolved everyone basically. So tell me.. WHO is responsible for all the broken relationships? On whose hands is all the suffering and the anguish and all the psychological and emotional damage that in most cases is beyond repair??? Victim or not, everyone should be held accountable.
Smurf wrote:
UntouchableJ wrote:
I dont wish anyone dead either. After doing some research, I've concluded Zhang is as misguided as Jim Jones, Heavens Gate, and other Cults. In hindsight, I think they were a church originally that loved their pastor, and then deified him. I have one question; When I first joined, the overseer told me that the Original members didnt recognize Ahn as God, til he "ascended". 8months ago we watched a video where Zhang was reminiscing over the early church years and told a story of how a member and members called him "Father" when he was alive.
So whose fault is it then? You've just absolved everyone basically. So tell me.. WHO is responsible for all the broken relationships? On whose hands is all the suffering and the anguish and all the psychological and emotional damage that in most cases is beyond repair??? Victim or not, everyone should be held accountable.
I know we've had a nasty little spat before, but I'm on your side on this one. And you were right in a way, i'm not gonna lie, I am full of hatred, mostly because of this group. Kai Ting's post expressing sympathy for zahng gil jah has got me so pissed of that I need to sit out for a few minutes before I can clearly articulate my thoughts with out too much vitriol.
I've been angry. I've been depressed, incredulous, frustrated, anguished, traumatized, and hopeless over the years of dealing with my son's involvement. Anyone who doesn't admit having had these range of emotions when they see the damage that has been done to their loved ones or themselves is, well, a liar or a saint. And, really, how many of us are saints?
But I believe what doesn't kill us makes us stronger, and most of us learn over time, to cope and make something positive out of this. We gradually become more objective and we try to help other people.
No one should feel guilty for experiencing the range of human emotions that come from dealing with something like this. You have to vent, grieve, and then move forward positively. In many cases, moving forward positively means trying to expose the Wms so that others don't go through what we have. If we can warn people and they decide not to become involved, and the current members finally see what most of them usually do, this organization will "die on the vine" so to speak.
Your emotions are completely understandable, Brian.
This comment was sooo unbelievalby stupid that I could not possibly let it slide…
Kai TIng wrote:
It's kind of tragic that some of us really think that she's better off dead, I am of course not blaming anyone for having that thought, it's understandable and everyone has right to opinions.
really?……….really?…………..REALLY!!!!!!!!????? what about the families that have been broken apart or the lives that have been destroyed for the hope that the 144,000 could go to heaven alive with zahng???? THATS TRAGIC!
But still…to think that an old woman who should be enjoying her old life in retirement now is facing such pressure from the world to perform and behave like god, and receiving contempt and redicule from people outside of the organisation…. because of some mistake she made when she was younger or even because an organisation framed her and is using her as a figurehead…
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!!! the poor megalomaniac, multi millionare cult leader is letting the stress of the day ware her out! how sad!!!
Or even assuming she is doing it because she wants to…it's still kinda sad that she will have to go to the grave upholding such lie, and cannot just rest in peace. Same with ash, I mean who else have their tombstones marked and used as 'evidence' in some ongoing dispute? It's like even after they are dead there is still no peace to be found.
I am an athiest, not everyone here is and thats ok, but the only thing about zanhg dying that makes me sad is the fact that there is not a hell for her to go to.
I am an ex-member. You sound like you miss the group
And I know that most of us suffered because of this group. But I just want to say to them this "whoever you are, and whatever the reason is for you to do such a thing, I just want to say that I forgive you. The lies that you made up to deceive people, the actions you did to people by turning them against their own families and the countless future you have destroyed by making people lose sight of reality are indeed terrible deeds.
Forgiveness is usually warranted after a sincere apology. So if Zanhg comes out in public, admits she is not god, pays back ALL the money people have tithed and offered since the begining of the organisation and can then somehow repair all the families she has broken….then……forgiveness can be spoken about
But humans all make mistakes. At the end of it all, I just hope that you can die in peace."
driving drunk is a mistake, losing one's temper and getting arrested is a mistake, craping your pants is a MISTAKE! what zanhg did,…and is doing…is a crime against humanity..
And I also hope that one day we can put this to rest and put what is past behind us. And let us learn from this experience to treasure what we have, to show real care and love to people, and to never take for granted what we have. To those who are still in the fight due to loved ones trapped in the organisation, do take care of yourself as well and do not lose sight of your own life. And of course, we will always be here for you 🙂
I do realize that passiveness may be the best way for you to cope, but it is certainly not for everyone else. And don't you dare chide anyone for feeling that zanhg and ahn are gaint peices of crap. Maybe you should start your own group or website called "the Zanhg and ahn appreciation society"….oh wait isnt there already something like that???????????
Brian, I see your point. Families have been destroyed. Some have different forms and ways of dealing with their hurt. I was mainly focusing toward the people who havent been in WMS, but name call.
to be honest, i regret popping off like that, but idk
Mayor and Mike wrote:
Brain, you make me laugh. But you need to be nice. Kai is entitled to her opinion. Its not stupid. You just really really disagree. She shows me she has a big heart. She sees this differently. I understand her.
Kai, I had to laugh, but do you miss the group?
Kai is right. Everyone should let these two rest in peace. So in other words the church should shut 'er down. Layoff all the gospel workers. Close their doors. Take a bow, and say good bye.
The Zahng and Ahn appreciation website? Lol. Come on. Let Kai have her opinion. She seems like she's a good soul.
Kai I agree with you. And come to think of it I kind of miss the group actually.
Here is a good way to think about it.Try to tell a holocaust survivor that you feel bad for Hitler and see what kind of reaction you get. One of the things i've always enjoyed about not being in a cult is that you're free to feel the way you truly feel in that rotten nasty feelings are allowed. In my response to Kai there was perhaphs too much vitriol. But I will stand by my point firmly that it is too bad there is not a hell for zanhg and ahn to go to, they do not deserve rest or any kind of empathy or compassion.
Mayor and Mike wrote:
Brian Taylor, I see your points. We are entitled to our opinions. But I don't know your story. I guess you were a member and now you are an atheist? Thats a big transition. They must have cause some damage. My overseer is trying to do the same to me. And for no reason.
But I understand Kai. In my opinion she's taking a righteous approach to this. She says she forgives them not because they deserve forgiveness. She forgives them because she is washing her hands and soul clean of them. At the time of salvation she'll recieve it, but her church won't. What she is doing is difficult. I fail in that aspect. According to the bible she'll recieve a great reward. Luke 6:35. She should go further and do good to them like giving them food and water if they needed it. The bible says it would be like dumping burning coals on their heads, (as they deserve). Proverbs 21:22
I've posted my whole story on youtube,in a set of videos, on a channel titled "koba soso". I must correct myself, I am not an atheist but rather an antitheist. If we were to take the WMSCOG as the epitome of what it would be like if there actually was a god, then I ask you: how would that be any different then living in north Korea? Even to step back from the WMSCOG. Lets say there was a god, and there was a certain system of faith that one was required to follow in order to recieve salvation and enter heaven when they die. When I think objectively about what heaven would be like as ascribed by most abrahamic faiths; there will be no complaining or opposition to the status quo ( REV:21:4) which in turn means there shall be no free thought, we are required to sing praises and worship a 'dear leader' day and night and for all eternity (PSLM: 75:9), finally we would all be siblings in this celestial north korea (MTHW:12:48) and if we were all siblings…….that would suck…..cause I think you know where I'm going with this. But either way, coming out of the WMSCOG and enjoying the freedom of thought has lead me to such convictions. You may disagree with me if you like ( another freedom that members don't have) but this is just my view. It is also my view that all religion is detrimental to the advancement and survival of the human race. However, this cult is the one that has most closely caused harm to my person, so I therefore have an inner daemon ( not a demon) which brings me great joy to struggle against this cult in anyway.
But thats just a little bit about me. Concerning Kai,(to put it esoterically) she can take the right hand path in this matter, because I have no problem taking the left hand one.
@Mayor and Mike: I don't wish anyone dead, either, but I have to disagree with your statement that "She does good work in the community." I think the members do the good work, using their own resources, and they fully put their hearts into it. The "Mother" isn't doing the work, or funding the work, either. Of course, the Wms is busy choreographing and filming whatever work is done by the members and then it is used as propaganda for recruiting purposes. They call the newspapers and tv stations and get them to come out and do a piece on them. (Doesn't it say in the Bible, something like don't let the left hand know wht the right is doing when doing a good deed?) Anyway, it's better than a commercial during the Superbowl, really, when they get the media involved, and the leaders know it. Something that could be a really good thing, something that other churches do and then don't advertise, is used to the advantage of the Wms to draw more people in to their web. And then it turns out to be something they eventually see as based on lies. The members are being used in every way possible, and when they see it, you get the reaction of many ex members on here.
I know we are supposed to forgive and all that. But I think most will have to go through the process of it first. There is no switch you can turn on and off. There are all the other emotions first, and in the end the forgiveness comes. More of a journey than a light switch for most.
@mountian mom: I agree with everything you say. The verse you are speaking of is mttw:6:1: "Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." and as you said, compiling video footage of these psuedo charity events and turning them into tawdry recruitment propaganda is a direct contradiction to this scripture.
But I honestly think that i'll forever fantasize about the day when zahng, choo choo kim and the rest of the entourage get what they deserve.
@mayor and mike: What do you mean by missing the group? In what sense? The group itself nearly destroyed me and I am lucky to have survived it, and am more than happy to be out of it. But yes I pity those who are stuck inside, especially those that I consider as friends who over time has formed bonds (practice preaching together and going out to the streets together, sharing taxi fares for morning service, eating breakfast and dinner together before and after services, etc) and am sad that I may not be able to get them out.
I think I owe some here an apology for being insensitive to the victims and overlooking their pain, but I will not take my words back on "forgiveness". It is exactly for the pain that they have caused that I am choosing to "forgive" them – not because their crimes should be forgiven, but because I choose to be clean of them. Dwelling in pain and anger only make me still trapped in the group psychologically and continue being a victim. There is much more to life then this.
Maybe I should not have voiced my thoughts here, for I definitely did not foresee such a huge reaction when I typed that. But please, I want to make myself clear that I am not showing sign of friendliness towards the group or even wanting to go back. Not ever going to happen.
Kai TIng wrote:
@mayor and mike: What do you mean by missing the group? In what sense? The group itself nearly destroyed me and I am lucky to have survived it, and am more than happy to be out of it. But yes I pity those who are stuck inside, especially those that I consider as friends who over time has formed bonds (practice preaching together and going out to the streets together, sharing taxi fares for morning service, eating breakfast and dinner together before and after services, etc) and am sad that I may not be able to get them out.
I think I owe some here an apology for being insensitive to the victims and overlooking their pain, but I will not take my words back on "forgiveness". It is exactly for the pain that they have caused that I am choosing to "forgive" them – not because their crimes should be forgiven, but because I choose to be clean of them. Dwelling in pain and anger only make me still trapped in the group psychologically and continue being a victim. There is much more to life then this.
Maybe I should not have voiced my thoughts here, for I definitely did not foresee such a huge reaction when I typed that. But please, I want to make myself clear that I am not showing sign of friendliness towards the group or even wanting to go back. Not ever going to happen.
I am sorry to have came at you the way I did. You can share your thoughts all you want, just do so on the premise that zanhg=hitler and we=jews.
Kai TIng wrote:
@mayor and mike: What do you mean by missing the group? In what sense? The group itself nearly destroyed me and I am lucky to have survived it, and am more than happy to be out of it. But yes I pity those who are stuck inside, especially those that I consider as friends who over time has formed bonds (practice preaching together and going out to the streets together, sharing taxi fares for morning service, eating breakfast and dinner together before and after services, etc) and am sad that I may not be able to get them out.
I think I owe some here an apology for being insensitive to the victims and overlooking their pain, but I will not take my words back on "forgiveness". It is exactly for the pain that they have caused that I am choosing to "forgive" them – not because their crimes should be forgiven, but because I choose to be clean of them. Dwelling in pain and anger only make me still trapped in the group psychologically and continue being a victim. There is much more to life then this.
Maybe I should not have voiced my thoughts here, for I definitely did not foresee such a huge reaction when I typed that. But please, I want to make myself clear that I am not showing sign of friendliness towards the group or even wanting to go back. Not ever going to happen.
Your input is valued here, Kai Ting. Don't stop voicing your thoughts. You are not obligated to take anything back. The only way we truly understand each other is to discuss and to look at each other's experiences. This whole experience was damaging, and it is natural that there is going to be a lot of anger to be dealt with afterwards. The group leaders discount and minimize the damage and the pain, and the members don't realize the full impact till later.
I agree that you can't continue dwelling on the pain and anger, and that forgiveness is something we should all strive for. I am just saying that it is going to take a while, especially for those of us still being forced to deal with this group because of our family members in there. Speaking for myself, it is a different place I am at, having a son in the Wms, than someone who simply has friends still in there. There is a different level of commitment, there is a different level of shared experiences. I don't have the option of just leaving him behind. Parents of members have to keep dealing with it, often for years. And when he finally comes out, it still won't be over. I am very concerned about how he is going to deal with the real truth when he realizes it. It isn't going to be pretty.
@Brian: I just watched all four parts of your video testimony…I understand much better where you are coming from now..honestly I am quite at a loss for words but I'll just say that I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you will continue walking strong in the road to recovery.
@MM: You are an awesome person. Despite the hardships and pain you personally face you are still tolerant towards others and calm in speech, I just want to let you know that you are awsome and that please continue to stay strong and be there for your son. But everyone need someone to support them, and if there's ever anything that we here can do please tell us.
One thing I really like about here is that every one of us seems to be so "human". Even though I do not know any of you personally, I can tell that there is a real and sincere person behind those words you type, be it humor anger sadness vegence or even happiness. This is something that I haven't felt in quite some time from strangers, or even friends who always try to show their "happy side" and not the true self. No matter what believes you all have, you guys are awesome
Kai TIng wrote:
@Brian: I just watched all four parts of your video testimony…I understand much better where you are coming from now..honestly I am quite at a loss for words but I'll just say that I'm sorry for your loss, and I hope you will continue walking strong in the road to recovery.
@MM: You are an awesome person. Despite the hardships and pain you personally face you are still tolerant towards others and calm in speech, I just want to let you know that you are awsome and that please continue to stay strong and be there for your son. But everyone need someone to support them, and if there's ever anything that we here can do please tell us.
One thing I really like about here is that every one of us seems to be so "human". Even though I do not know any of you personally, I can tell that there is a real and sincere person behind those words you type, be it humor anger sadness vegence or even happiness. This is something that I haven't felt in quite some time from strangers, or even friends who always try to show their "happy side" and not the true self. No matter what believes you all have, you guys are awesome
Thanks for your kind words, but especially for your insights and for staying here to comment. The people here truly are real and sincere. I know many of these people personally, and they are really something. They have definitely helped me, and I am here to pay it forward all I can. If I can help you at any time, let me know.
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