[Mayor and Mike]

Did she? Did she pass away? I really really suspect she died and the church is covering it up. The church doesn't earnestly pray Mother's suffering, to finish the gospel, find the last brothers and sisters anymore. Why? Does anybody have any info about this?

The church themes have changed. 

[Mayor and Mike]

[Mayor and Mike]

I think we need to know the truth. Its important. 

[Kai TIng]

What makes you think that? Are you an ex-member or current member, how do you know what they are praying for nowadays?

[Mayor and Mike]

I like to stay informed Kai Ting. I noticed changes in the themes within the church since 2013. There were changes in their videos. One video the theme was the mother animals gives her life up for her children. They changed the 3 part video, what was it called? The coronation ceremony? The one with Satan giving the fruit of corruption to the princes and princesses. They changed the video, so now Satan's main purpose is to "kill the heavenly mother."  I saw a photo of Zahng at the end of 2013 and she looked very unwell. The church appeared to be preparing for her passing away. Its understandable, all humans have to pass away some day. 

[Kai TIng]

There is a visiting group to korea arranged this coming december though, I'd say it's soon but not yet. I don't actually know what was the theme back in 2013, but I have seen the videos you mentioned and the last time I asked the answer was still that the world will end before zhang dies. 

There was a song "The Day of Glory" where the lyrics say that we will see ahn coming down to bring zhang and the 144,000 up to heaven before our very eyes. From what I know the song is actually quite new as well (not in song book)

[MountainMom]

I wonder why they didn't go to Korea in November as originally planned.    I don't think Zhang has died because there are people in Korea who would have that information.  Last time we checked she was still alive.  I fell that she is probably ill because even two or three years ago she was falling asleep during sermons, Lol!  Of course, they ARE repetitive to the point that even a supposed deity couldn't stay awake. 

[Selena]

Did they change the song? I remember when I was a member, I left about nine months ago, the song said that ahn would come back to receive our mother and we would finally go back home. I actually have the song in the trash of my google drive. I tried to upload but I don't know how.

[Mayor and Mike]

"Our home, finally the day has arrived. The day of glory that we dreamed of has arrived, it has come. Being accompanied by a great number of angels of heaven. Our Father God Ahnsahnghong is coming in great glory." Its still a good song. I think. The whole cd is pretty epic. (listening to it now)

All people fall asleep in the services. I've seen many, me included. 

 

I don't know, my zion doesn't pray for Mother's suffering anymore, and we watch videos of General Pastor during service. No heavenly mother. Makes me wonder…

[UntouchableJ]

When I heard that “Mother” falls asleep all the time, I was shocked. Primarily because my former Zion went to great lengths to make me, and others feel bad for nodding off. Iy was equated to being “spiritually” dead. I remember the Overseer saying that “your not actually keeping the Sabbath” if your asleep.

[Brian Taylor]

UntouchableJ wrote:

When I heard that "Mother" falls asleep all the time, I was shocked. Primarily because my former Zion went to great lengths to make me, and others feel bad for nodding off. Iy was equated to being "spiritually" dead. I remember the Overseer saying that "your not actually keeping the Sabbath" if your asleep.

lol yeah! at my zion they said "devils were pukking our eyelids shut"

[Brian Taylor]

Brian Taylor wrote:

UntouchableJ wrote:

When I heard that "Mother" falls asleep all the time, I was shocked. Primarily because my former Zion went to great lengths to make me, and others feel bad for nodding off. Iy was equated to being "spiritually" dead. I remember the Overseer saying that "your not actually keeping the Sabbath" if your asleep.

lol yeah! at my zion they said "devils were pukking our eyelids shut"

Pulling*,….sorry

[MountainMom]

I feel that they have to tell a member something to guilt  them into staying awake or the "sleep deprivation" component of the mind control isn't as effective.  It is often during times when the member is extremely tired and worn down that they make the decision to start tithing large amounts, and start buying into everything this group has to offer wholesale. 

[Kai TIng]

I didn;t know there was a visiting trip in November, when I was first informed it was already stated as next month. Yes I also still have the songs, 100+ of them all on cloud drive, and 5 CDs. The song "The Day of Glory" has not been changed, and it was just sang recently this year.

In my one year membership since 2014, I have only seen video recording (just a voice recording, and a picture or animation, no live visual) of Ahn and Zhang once each. I considered it as great honour when I was a member, and it made sense to me that it was so rare, since it is a recording by "god". As for video of chief pastor, it was standard practice to play it every morning sabbath every week, has been that way ever since I first became a member.

Speaking of 2014 and 2015, I don't actually see much changes. I am looking forward to the day when zhang pass away actually, as it will be a great window to get current members out of there. However I pretty much doubt that it has happened yet.

[Mayor and Mike]

Brian Taylor, did you say there were devils pulling your eye lids shut? Huh? There were devils in zion? devils there with you during worship service? Devils in church? Thats not good. That's really really not good. That could explain some things in my zion.

[Abhigail Delema]

Very true Mayor and Mike there are devils in zion,who keep watch over you.Who quietly gossip about members with the pastors,who also spread rummors and lies about members.I know of decons and deconess {from Santacruz} who queitly go out for picnics to Ali baag in mumbai India encouraged members to drink alcohol and in front of the pastors they act like saints.He also boldly tells members he will become a missionary soon.It is a real shame to see such type of behaviour in zion.Then the question arises does their mother not know all these things.I at time feel it is all positions and titles that matter in zion.I even heard a missionary (female) from Borivili zion  calls members and tells them who they should spie on and not to talk to members because they pass on infomation to ex-members.

[Mayor and Mike]

So there are devils who pull our eyes closed, watch over us, and they are in human form too!? Mama no, mama no!

 

But all kidding aside, what are we supposed to do about all these issues? I know what you mean Abhigail. We get the slander, gossip, and spying from the leaders too. Has the love grown cold? Where's the righteousness gone?

And I shouldn't say of zion, my zion, but the one I used to attend. 

 

After all the changes within the church the last few years, I still suspect she passed away. Thanks for the input guys. I'm sure we will find out sooner or later. I'll stay tuned. 

[Brian Taylor]

Mayor and Mike wrote:

So there are devils who pull our eyes closed, watch over us, and they are in human form too!? Mama no, mama no!

 

But all kidding aside, what are we supposed to do about all these issues? I know what you mean Abhigail. We get the slander, gossip, and spying from the leaders too. Has the love grown cold? Where's the righteousness gone?

And I shouldn't say of zion, my zion, but the one I used to attend. 

 

After all the changes within the church the last few years, I still suspect she passed away. Thanks for the input guys. I'm sure we will find out sooner or later. I'll stay tuned. 

Yes, I kid you not, not I kid you: I was told that mama zahng said " when we feel our eyes becoming heavy during woship, there are devils pulling our eye lids closed". Because satan does not want us to recieve the water of life that we only get through the word of god.

[Mayor and Mike]

@Brian Taylor. I never heard that one. Devils aren't supposed to be in zion. But I heard many other things. Even in Heavenly Mother's sermon's (before 2014) a few of her subtitles were questionable. To me sounds like the translators were making her sound very wise. Our reactions were supposed be like: wow, she knows unheard of things.  But rather they were questionable.

What you say goes with the theme that Satan is trying to lead us away from Mother. That theme is prior to 2013. Now it's changed.

Apparently in the recent videos, going to the internet is like eating the fruit of corruption. That's the church's "mind control" again. But this not corruption. I mean there is slander here, yes. And there are many opinions. And there are people angry at the church. But there are lots of truthful testimonies here too. Its good to know what's been going on in the other Zions. 

[UntouchableJ]

In her old age, Zhang is making mistakes. I was challenged with a thought ;Zhang still speaks Korean, and that is so that her mistakes can be excused as, “Issues of translation”.

[Kai TIng]

It's kind of tragic that some of us really think that she's better off dead, I am of course not blaming anyone for having that thought, it's understandable and everyone has right to opinions.

But still…to think that an old woman who should be enjoying her old life in retirement now is facing such pressure from the world to perform and behave like god, and receiving contempt and redicule from people outside of the organisation…. because of some mistake she made when she was younger or even because an organisation framed her and is using her as a figurehead…

Or even assuming she is doing it because she wants to…it's still kinda sad that she will have to go to the grave upholding such lie, and cannot just rest in peace. Same with ash, I mean who else have their tombstones marked and used as 'evidence' in some ongoing dispute? It's like even after they are dead there is still no peace to be found.

I am an ex-member. And I know that most of us suffered because of this group. But I just want to say to them this "whoever you are, and whatever the reason is for you to do such a thing, I just want to say that I forgive you. The lies that you made up to deceive people, the actions you did to people by turning them against their own families and the countless future you have destroyed by making people lose sight of reality are indeed terrible deeds. But humans all make mistakes. At the end of it all, I just hope that you can die in peace."

And I also hope that one day we can put this to rest and put what is past behind us. And let us learn from this experience to treasure what we have, to show real care and love to people, and to never take for granted what we have. To those who are still in the fight due to loved ones trapped in the organisation, do take care of yourself as well and do not lose sight of your own life. And of course, we will always be here for you 🙂

[Kai TIng]

Just venting my thoughts, makes me feel better in a way. Not intending to generalise anything or pointing fingers to anyone. Not interested in hearing anyone rebuke and say "But that is not what I believe / I never wished her dead / etc" because that is not the point of my post. (or maybe I should get my own blog LOL)