- Topic
My significant other will be taking the trip, and the family is going super crazy about it. I have a few questions .. maybe I can help ease their pain..
- Does a member decides to go on his/her own will.?
- Does a member cover all his/her expenses.?
- Is it safe to make the trip over there.?
- How long is the stay once in Korea.?
- Does a member from the cult in Korea pick members up at the airport.?
- Where do members stay once there.?
- Does a member have to pay for his/her own food or is his/her fed for free.?
- Does a member have the freedom of going out of his/her "concentration camps in Korea."?
- Does everyone has equal opportunity to meet the old lady.?
Some help answering these questions will be hugely appreciated… The family is going nut and I would like to provide them with some comforting answers… if such exist.
Wow Travis! You have expressed precisely how I feel about this whole situation so exactly and so well. That is probably the best explanation of how it affects people that I have heard all in one post. And the reason it resonates is because it is so entirely honest and from the heart. That is the best and only way to express something.
I am with you, I don't want to insult or offend with my posts, but I do sometimes because I have to tell it honestly. As I said, it isn't exactly a concentration camp, but there are similarities. If a person is being entirely controlled and is not making their own decisions, but the decisions of their manipulators, they really are in a kind of prison, whether it has walls or not. Psychological prison, which I think is the worst kind.
@Travis@Mountain Mom – I can’t agree more…..!!!!
As Mountain Mom said ,Travis, you have nailed it!
I could not express it better! You have precisely explained the hopelessness, desperation, and frustration we feel for our loved ones who have become “trapped” in this group. The pain that is created by these people, who convince our loved ones that we are not worthy of their trust any more because we do not know (or will not believe) their truth, is overwhelming!
They, (the wmscog),have taken control of the relationships we have with our loved ones- and it’s all for money and power! It is devastating, and very painful for so many family members- whether it be parents, spouses, siblings or any extended family members.
It is often beyond expression unless you are experiencing it first hand, and even then, it is hard to express the pain it creates to watch our loved ones being deceived so grossly!
Well said @Travis. I have never been in your shoes. I'm here because of my friend whose wife is trapped in this mess. What is worse, they have two kids and my friend has to struggle constantly to keep his kids out of that place.
unknown wrote:
@Heinrich @MountainMom
The question is very rude. You can't compare something like this to a concentration camp just because you guys don't agree with it. Yes they aren't allowed to go anywhere they choose, but the members that go are going of their own will. They are not being forced. Also concentration camps were places were people were tortured, starved, and killed mercilessly just because of their religous belief, race, sexual orientation, etc (during WWII for example). The dorms/bible study buildings do not even compare to this type of situation. The members are fed, taken care of, and treated hospitibally by the korean members. I know you guys hate this group because of what they've done to you and/or your family members, but you can not just insult them any chance you get. It looks bad. Attack them by proving that what they teach and practice is false not by hurling blind insults in their general direction.
Have you ever tried this with a member? In my experience, you can debate all you want. They just do not listen to anything contrary to their belief. If they make a claim and you logically refute, they just switch to another claim without taking the first one to its conclusion. After switching a few times, they even return to the first one with exactly the same claim as before and completely ignoring the rebuttal you may have made already. Stonewalling.
If you have better experience than that, please share it.
Insulting people certainly doesn't work either…
by the way when you think about the concentration camp thing.. you aren't just insulting members and the cult
you are also insulting Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, Blacks, et al who were put there in Europe and Japanese who were put there in the United States durring WWII belittling their trauma and experience.
As we all have said, we don't mean to insult. And we know there are big differences. but there are also similarities. It is just a simile, not an indictment that the wms runs concentration camps. That is pretty obvious to almost all, I think.
However, we also cannot pussyfoot around the truth of the pain caused by the wms. Some are so sensitive that even when you are purposely trying to avoid any semblance of an insult, they take it that way anyway. It's too bad, but that is how sensitive and paranoid some members are when under the influence.
fed, taken care and shown hospitality? ofcourse you will receive such treatments and there’s nothing “heavenly” about that, intact its mortally common… afteral you already paid for it anyways, don’t believe me? for few thousands… try signing on to a cruise ship
tour, believe me… you will also experience those kinda “virtues”.
and there’s no end and no point arguing about how wrong or right regarding what they do or what they teach… actually all anybody need is a working common sense to tell that behind all the heavenly charades, beyond all the supposed Dan brown-esque uber super secret knowledge… its all just about cashing out.
been there, done that…
@Travis @MountainMom
The question could have been asked without the concentration camp insult tacked onto it. No matter what you say to justify it, it was rude and unnecessary. The point of this website is to inform about the injustices of the WMSCOG not to insult the organization. Also, Travis I lost my sister and a significant portion of my own life to this group. Do you see me calling them a concentration camp?
@unknown: I am sorry to hear you lost your sister and part of your life to the group. I sympathize greatly, and I hope you will stay on the site and try to help others. However, like I said before, no matter what people say here, I believe the wms will be insulted whether it is warranted or not. I very well think current members will be extremely insulted by you saying they commit injustices, too. There really isn't anything we can say(that is contrary to how they view themselves) at this time that will not be viewed as an attack.I have actually stood up for members on this site on certain points, and yet I am sure they see me as some kind of enemy. I don't hate the members. I get discouraged with them, but I do undertand how and why they were indoctrinated and duped. Even though I understand, it is still a great source of pain to have gone through all of this as a result of my loved one's involvement.
I think former members are especially sensitive to criticisms (or perceived criticisms) of current members because they relate to it better than someone who was never a member at all.
Travis wrote:
unknown wrote:
@Travis @MountainMom
The question could have been asked without the concentration camp insult tacked onto it. No matter what you say to justify it, it was rude and unnecessary. The point of this website is to inform about the injustices of the WMSCOG not to insult the organization. Also, Travis I lost my sister and a significant portion of my own life to this group. Do you see me calling them a concentration camp?
@Uknown, everyone is entitled to freely express what and how they feel about this place.
you are absolutly right, it is your right to be the biggest most egotistical and arrogant jerk face on the planet if you so desire
I did not lose part of me. like you did, to the WMS because I was brave enough to ask crucial questions from the very beginning.
such as right here
people join this damn place because they truly go with an opened heart. I truly believe that .. but not an opened eye to the things that don't make sense and that are not true.
and the bolded part here
being your right doesn't make it right…
Travis wrote:
I did not lose part of me. like you did, to the WMS because I was brave enough to ask crucial questions from the very beginning.
I was only 15 years old…
How did they get to you, Unknown? And, if you can share, what was your parent's reaction to your involvement? Fifteen is a very young age to make such a commitment on your own. As far as somethings go, it's not even the age of consent.
unknown wrote:
Travis wrote:
I did not lose part of me. like you did, to the WMS because I was brave enough to ask crucial questions from the very beginning.
I was only 15 years old…
MountainMom wrote:
How did they get to you, Unknown? And, if you can share, what was your parent's reaction to your involvement? Fifteen is a very young age to make such a commitment on your own. As far as somethings go, it's not even the age of consent.
Unknown, I also feel it would be very helpful to so many people if you could share your story of how a 15 year old was exposed to the WMS and dealt with the indoctrination process AND was able to free him/herself. If it's too personal, i'm sure everyone would understand as well
Maybe he hit the rebelious phase typical for the late teens and that's how he got out 🙂
@Smurf really? -_-Maybe ill make a post a bout it or talk to an admin about making a former member story article or something. We'll see
@Unknown: Or maybe you could even respond to the private message I sent you. If you aren't ready to tell your story, let us know that, if possible. Some are so traumatized they can't talk about it for years later, and I know one who was only in five months and still doesn't want to talk about it, three years later! I know that it isn't easy, especially if you are still extra sensitive to criticisms of current members.It is tough I'm sure, because many members experience a lot of rejection while recruiting, and it stings. I know that my poor son was "dispatched with extreme prejudice" as the line goes in the move "Major Payne" when he was out recruiting in his early involvement. It was tough for him because many people said awful things to him as he tried to tell them about the beliefs of the WMS. I think former members still sympathize with current members because they relate to the rejection and criticisms, since they experienced it themselves. That is why former members are what I would call "touchy." They don't want to hear they are stupid to believe what they did, either, because they aren't stupid, and they didn't join because they were mentally unstable or damaged goods. That is not why they joined. It is the very polished, deceptive presentation that got them. The fact that they weren't told the whole story up front. The trap was set, and they didn't realize it. Most people wouldn't. It has nothing to do with intelligence or lack thereof.
What would be helpful is for us all to step in each other's shoes. For the former member, you need to hear what it was like from your parent's and sibling's point of view. The pain caused by your involvement is something that can't be minimized. Have you ever asked your family what it was like for them? It seems as though the whole WMS experience caused pain for virtually everyone involved, whether as a member or a non-member. I am not saying there were no good things about the experience, and that there were no good people in that "church." I am saying the overall picture and final result was pain for everyone, and the bad outweighed the good mightily. Mainly because the "church" is based on a huge lie and it's members finally see they were exploited.
MountainMom wrote:
@Unknown: Or maybe you could even respond to the private message I sent you. If you aren't ready to tell your story, let us know that, if possible. Some are so traumatized they can't talk about it for years later, and I know one who was only in five months and still doesn't want to talk about it, three years later! I know that it isn't easy, especially if you are still extra sensitive to criticisms of current members.It is tough I'm sure, because many members experience a lot of rejection while recruiting, and it stings. I know that my poor son was "dispatched with extreme prejudice" as the line goes in the move "Major Payne" when he was out recruiting in his early involvement. It was tough for him because many people said awful things to him as he tried to tell them about the beliefs of the WMS. I think former members still sympathize with current members because they relate to the rejection and criticisms, since they experienced it themselves. That is why former members are what I would call "touchy." They don't want to hear they are stupid to believe what they did, either, because they aren't stupid, and they didn't join because they were mentally unstable or damaged goods. That is not why they joined. It is the very polished, deceptive presentation that got them. The fact that they weren't told the whole story up front. The trap was set, and they didn't realize it. Most people wouldn't. It has nothing to do with intelligence or lack thereof.
What would be helpful is for us all to step in each other's shoes. For the former member, you need to hear what it was like from your parent's and sibling's point of view. The pain caused by your involvement is something that can't be minimized. Have you ever asked your family what it was like for them? It seems as though the whole WMS experience caused pain for virtually everyone involved, whether as a member or a non-member. I am not saying there were no good things about the experience, and that there were no good people in that "church." I am saying the overall picture and final result was pain for everyone, and the bad outweighed the good mightily. Mainly because the "church" is based on a huge lie and it's members finally see they were exploited.
You are spot on MM. I think the disagreements on this site come from the differences of where you stand: ex-members, current members, family members. I know that my child is oblivious to the pain they have caused the family. They feel they are the ones persecuted by us for their beliefs. The first time our child told us we were persecuting them, my husband and I said, "this sounds like a cult!"All cults tell their members they will be persecuted, so the members expect to be ridiculed and rejected. The sad thing is that it is just another way the cult controls them. Instead of thinking that the reason for the rejection is that people are telling them they have fallen for a scam, they believe they are winning favor with the Korean gods for perservering. And what would their reward be for perservering: a promotion to a leadership position? A promise that they will get their own church (not unless you're Korean). Or better yet – you won't see material rewards here on earth – you will be rewarded in heaven – you know… the whole 144,000 chosen lie!
My child kept telling me that everything negative I read on the internet about WMSCOG was lies. The really sad thing is that EVERYTHING I have read negative about them has proven to be true:
They separate families (we have very little contact with our child)
They scam the members for their money
They arrange marriages so the Koreans get into the US
They create obedient followers and reward them with compliments when they bring in new recruits (more money up the chain)
They promise eternal life, all the while sucking the life out of them now
I can't tell you the pain I have gone through for my child. They have worked so hard to be one of the 144,000 chosen, all the while their friends are graduating from college, traveling the world and celebrating life with their families. And my child… trapped in a cult, wasting their life and causing separation of other families as they recruit. Its the most helpless feeling in the world!
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