- Topic
Disengaging from thought control cults like WMSCOG or the Unification Church (Moonies) is difficult, but, once done, new challenges arise. After meeting with 2 former members recently, those challenges become all too apparent.
Emerging after several years, relationships need to be re-established with family, friends, loved ones. Sometimes these relationships have been severely damaged because of the cult.
Getting used to wide open spaces. This sounds funny, but I think that those emerging from the close confines of WMSCOG have to struggle to maintain perspective in daily life. Everything seems different to them, even though little has really changed. But to the recent recanter the world seems big, wide, full of turmoil. Answers are no longer easy to come by, particularly when you have been spoon fed for so many years on what WMSCOG says all the answers are …
Loneliness. Hard for me to understand, but there is camraderie within WMSCOG. Recanters have issues dealing with friends that have now suddenly rejected them for leaving. They have been close with them for years. Now …. nothing. No contact.
Financial. This is a big one for those who have been bilked of thousands, some hundreds of thousands, by the WMSCOG apparatus. For many recanters this is a huge hurdle to overcome. Retirement accounts are gone. Even some have sold real estate to help Mother! Members have left good jobs because the work hours didn't match what WMSCOG wanted. Recovering financially is a big issue after leaving for many.
It would be great to start a discussion on how to help those coming out cope with the difficulties they will face. Also we should listen to former members tell their stories about adjusting to life outside WMSCOG.
This is a good information, HH. I think it is really hard for people who haven't been in the cult to understand the difficulty in rejoining normality. I saw one video where a girl said for like months after she quit the wms, she was afraid to go out of the house because she really believed an anvil would come out of the sky and drop on her head! A guy who was recently out said that while he was in, ANYONE who disagreed with him about the views or operations of the church was Satan. And the sad reality is that he was taught what they are all eventually taught in the wms. What a twisted organization with twisted beliefs. And then the emotional blackmail at which they are so adept, shunning people when they leave.
WMS, we will take back those you shun. You don't practice forgiveness, and you shall be forgiven in the same way according to the Bible you like to quote (from the passages that suit your purposes)
Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:
Emerging after several years, relationships need to be re-established with family, friends, loved ones. Sometimes these relationships have been severely damaged because of the cult.
just as often families severly damage relationships with the group member with an equal amount of ignorance and then turn around with a chip on their shoulder with some sort of magical higher moral ground, parading about how christian they are.
truth.
and before fuck face attemps to troll me again just know that your boy Hassan would agree with that.
nohandle wrote:
Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:
Emerging after several years, relationships need to be re-established with family, friends, loved ones. Sometimes these relationships have been severely damaged because of the cult.
just as often families severly damage relationships with the group member with an equal amount of ignorance and then turn around with a chip on their shoulder with some sort of magical higher moral ground, parading about how christian they are.
truth.
and before fuck face attemps to troll me again just know that your boy Hassan would agree with that.
Parents cannot be faulted for not knowing how to deal with this cult initially, in my opinion. I had never come across anything so bizarre in my life. And I like others, thought my son is too smart, too connected to his family, and too purpose driven in life to ever fall prey to something like a cult. A parent's first reaction when they hear their kid talking in cult personality mode is "What the hell!" That is a normal, average response. We don't know how to deal with something like this at first. Then we start researching all we can get to help. It is like someone who has just found out their loved one has a serious disease you never heard of before and you want to learn all you can, to the point where you become almost an expert at it. It is after this that most parents have more understanding and try to rebuild bridges and just keep communication open. But it doesn't make the situation hurt any less.
well Mountain Mom at least you actually try to learn many parents really don’t seem to car to understand their children for why they are in situations
This is a good thread HH and you have brought up many important and concerning points.
It is difficult to know exactly what we can do to help our son “come out”- obviously what works for one member, may not work for others. However, we are very aware that when (not if, but when) our son comes out it will be a challenging time for him to live a normal life like most of us – after what he has endured during his time with this group.
@no handle – yes, sometimes family members do damage to the relationship because of ignorance, but how can we blame them? How many loved ones are prepared for such a thing as their family member joining a cult? it’s not something they learn about or are warned against in school or media such as drugs and alcohol etc. Unfortunately, these groups take advantage of “religious freedom” in our North American countries and it gives the message of “sorry there is nothing we can do to help” when approaching authorities etc.
This leaves Loved ones with a sense of being alone in trying to rescue their loved one from the trap they are in and adds to the frustration. Thankfully, there is this site where we can vent and converse with others who can relate and support.
I totally agree with Mountain Mom, that initially it is very difficult to know how to deal with the situation…and then we start researching and learn we should have handled it differently, after perhaps the damage has been done. This is what the group anticipates and prepares members for, which then makes us Loved ones the bad guys.
I do not parade around my son about how Christian I am, but I wish I could say the same for him- I don’t blame him though, it’s what he’s taught in this group.
Mountain Mom makes a good analogy- like a disease we’ve never heard of and don’t understand until we do research (although doing research and learning more makes us not only understand it better, but also realize how this group has stolen their lives from them and turned them against the ones who Love them unconditionallly)!
My personal experience comming out of the WMS was loneliness because i lost all my family members and friends after i joined this cult,knowing and believeing that they are the children of satan and only the chosen are selected by father and mother and we will go to heaven very soon .Being there gave me hope that even if the world doesnt love me but my brothers and sisters of zion love me and we will always be together till we go to heaven,listening to their sermons and looking at their videos[ brain washing us about the outside world].
But now that i am out of zion all my lonelines,fear of the world ending has changed and made me believe that they are liars,cheaters, and has given me a heart and mind to have revenge, for them because i feel cheated,because after you leave you see their true colors the people who you thought were there for you are no more and you are called a betrayer,judas etc this itself gives you hope that they are traitors knowing the wrongs that they themself do like not paying taxes to the goverment but collecting tithes showing verses like give god what is gods and give ceasar what is cesars.Then knowing about the lie they do to get to know members like reading their letters saying that mother is going to read when she doesnt speak and read english,.knowing about the abortion, vasatomy etc gives me hope to know they are worst then then the RC church which they call satan,becoz atleast they dont permit divoce without the permission of the vatican but here in zion it is allowed becoz the gods them selves have divorce it so do the members.Basicly today when all these things come to mind i feel it is better to be out of that cult who i would say are sheep with wolf clothing.Who pretend to keep the commands of god but are ferouios wolves as you slowly get to know them better.Only feel guilty for having been cheated for my emotions and time wasted there which i could have done something useful for myself and my family and friends.
I am freshly out of there. When I was in, I literally believed that this site was done by a single person and all member names, everything here, are fabricated to misguide people, even now I am scared to post this for the fear that they will see this…or everything is controlled by some conspiracy and this site is affliated with wmscog to catch "traitors"….The mental blackmail is real
Hi Kai. So glad you made it out and are here to share your experience.
Did they tell you that everyone here was just one person? It's a little funny because I know the people here are individuals, but when I read the wmscog comments on their blogs and other sites, they totally all sound alike, like it's the same people (or person) using multiple screen names.
Kai TIng wrote:
I am freshly out of there. When I was in, I literally believed that this site was done by a single person and all member names, everything here, are fabricated to misguide people, even now I am scared to post this for the fear that they will see this…or everything is controlled by some conspiracy and this site is affliated with wmscog to catch "traitors"….The mental blackmail is real
I'm glad to hear you are out Kai TIng, I can't wait for the day my love one is out… I know leaders of this church probably tell that a couple of people manage this forum and control all the user names make stuff up… but be sure that a lot of people make part of this forum, Mothers, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers, Wives, Husbands and everyone else who lost their love one to this group, please don't be afraid to share your story and hopefully this would help more people come out… If you feel comfortable sharing at this moment please tell us how you realized or what made you see reality and help you get out?
Jesus_will_set_u_free wrote:
I'm glad to hear you are out Kai TIng, I can't wait for the day my love one is out… I know leaders of this church probably tell that a couple of people manage this forum and control all the user names make stuff up… but be sure that a lot of people make part of this forum, Mothers, Fathers, Sisters, Brothers, Wives, Husbands and everyone else who lost their love one to this group, please don't be afraid to share your story and hopefully this would help more people come out… If you feel comfortable sharing at this moment please tell us how you realized or what made you see reality and help you get out?
All thanks to Elohim for waking me up from my sleep of death (sry bad taste joke, cant help myself)
I have complete faith in the Bible, because that's how I first started learning about Christianity (tbh that may not be the proper way…but at least I know that is the safest way) and everytime I see contradictions they always have some answers from misquoted verses to show me why they are right, and that was why I stayed there for so long. Recently though they have not been able to explain themselves and eventually resolved to saying that their leader, who they claim is god, has the right to change the bible and we must follow the leader and not the bible. Funny thing is, there is actually no 100% obejective proof that the leaders are who they claim to be. That's when I'm out.
The fact that I have been reading online since even before baptism in their church and still they got me for one year, and managing to have "answers" since day one…is disturbing in itself
Hey Kai, I had read about the organization before my baptism too and they got me for 2 and a half years. Though I had knowledge I didn’t really understand what I was reading. Understanding is the most important part.I also realized that at times I would put think myself. The organization is so good at confusing you that they play on that confusion and make you feel that you made a conscious decision when you did not.
I understand how they get people. They do the love bombing as a start, but there is more to it. Since no one is allowed to look sad there, be openly sad, or discuss problems, it probably appears to be an extremely happy place, kind of like a religious "Disneyland." There is also a lot of young energy there because a lot of the young people they recruit are genuinely happy and fun to be around, and they think they are doing great things there. Some people get told how wonderful they are on a regular basis, especially if they are giving a lot of money, and they want to hear that, of course. Who else strokes an ego like the WMS? Too bad it is fake and deception oriented.
People often have to be there a while before the "honeymoon" phase is over and reality sets in. It's kind of like when someone knows a person's significant other is a cheating lying dog, but since that person hasn't witnessed it personally, they don't believe it. Because they don't want to. It hurts, and they are happier in their perfect Disneyland world.
Kai TIng I am realy happy to read all your post and every thing you say is similar to what we experienced here in India.Basicaly i would say do not fear these hypocrites who talk big not only look in to the teaching of the bible ,but also look at their weakness they have which they are really scared will be exposed some day, so they teach their members to be secretive.For example every little detail i have posted on the examining the member was called by the pastor and questioned,and they have also let out spies to check who says what and who is in contact with ex members.But i have a decon who always tells my friend whats going on when they meet in the train.The decon here i speak about is a silly guy who likes to be praised for his works in zion like preaching,precideing and his prayers on the sabbath worship the fruits he bore ,he also tells people of his high postion he is in zion today,and how he goes round looking for new zions to be established.Sorry i know there are people who would not like to listen to what i always post about their internal movements ,but i really get joy to hear that the pastor is on his investigation,and i can just imagine the fright they go true,because again i say they are not legally established here in India(Regestered with another name and it is more of converting then really preaching).The bottom line is Kai i am really glad you left this place and hope to hear more of your experience with this cult.
MountainMom " There is also a lot of young energy there because a lot of the young people they recruit are genuinely happy and fun to be around, and they think they are doing great things there. Some people get told how wonderful they are on a regular basis, especially if they are giving a lot of money, and they want to hear that, of course. Who else strokes an ego like the WMS? Too bad it is fake and deception oriented. offline
the main reason i noticed, you see a lot of energy and the youth is very happy is they are brain washed well the pastor gives them a special bible study and big talks like you youth members are the warriors of zion, shows them videos of youth power from other zion.The biggest thing i noticed there was they first target the youth member who has his full family in zion.Then the assistant of the pastor who is a korean will be very good to the concerned youth telling him all stories about korea and also telling him he will be a good worker of zion and very soon he will get all the titles like decon etc.Not only that he is also given a chance to dream that he will have a korean wife and will be sent to another country or place to run a zion,depending on how good you are.One good thing is all his or her faults are over looked when they target someone as long as they go preaching every day attend the bible study and give tithes,and keep all the worship.One of the biggest common example you will hear is about the chief pastor how obident he was to ASH when he was told to share the room with others he did not grumble but the others were grumbling about ASH this is obidence so father gave him that position,there were many why did father only choose him?LOL and even today he is faithful to mother.So with all these stupid talks and brain washing i have seen all the robarts run arround in zion and go preaching and doing any work they are told to do.If it is hard work you will be reminded of father breaking stones and bowl of soup story and sisters will be reminded of mother carrying the sack of potatoes.Basically dont complain just keep doing till blessing come your way.One more thiing i noticed if a youth has a problem it wont go straight to the pastor it will go through his wife,she is also the match maker for the youth to get married.All the pastors wives are good in acting and you can fall prey to them if you have noticed.Basically i would say the pastors wives are only kept to see what going on in zion collect information from all leaders ,count the tithes/offerings , and i have seen when they sit to have dinner or lunch these issues are disscused.The youth is also thought to always repeat the magic words thanks to father and mother.Also if any member has borrowed money or his/her father has a drinking problem all discussed at the table.(Warriors of zion,mind control at its best.
Kai TIng wrote:
I am freshly out of there. When I was in, I literally believed that this site was done by a single person and all member names, everything here, are fabricated to misguide people, even now I am scared to post this for the fear that they will see this…or everything is controlled by some conspiracy and this site is affliated with wmscog to catch "traitors"….The mental blackmail is real
I have heard several people just out of the wms say they were still afraid to say anything negative the group, even though there is a lot to say. I don't entirely understand that fear because I was never a member. But I understand that there is still a hold on the minds of the ex-members for a while, depending on how long they were in. I would say, don't be afraid to post or speak openly about the group, as long as what you say is entirely the truth in your opinion. They aren't going to hurt you physically, and they can't sue you for telling the truth or giving your honest opinion.
Is there more to this fear that so many ex-members express? Is it simply the extension of the mind control, or is there something else?
As you said, they cant hurt us physically, and they cant sue us for telling the truth or giving honest opinion, so actually it's all just extension of mind control.
I think one key part of their mind control is that the devil is REAL and ACTIVE, and is using all kinds of ways to hinder the wmscog, the only truth from God, from advancing. Basically there is an extremely strong "us vs them" mentality. Everything that is not from "us" is from the devil.
Furthermore, this site and the encoutering site has been singled out as the key vehicle of the devil's work. That's where I got the "everything here is fabricated" idea. I felt that there would be one guy, acting under control of satan, designing and fabricating this whole site to lead people astray.
Ex-members are also portrayed as traitors and doomed to hell. This is spiritual blackmailing. That plus all the evidences of law suits against ex-members (from this site), makes me worry about actually being sued, because there is also the "big brother is watching" kind of mind control, whereby everyone must always act happy and cheerful because that's what everyone else does.
As of now I decided not to be in any religion. Is there really a difference between "wmscog vs babylon" and "christian vs non-christian"? Don't christians believe that non-christians who rejected God are also doomed to hell? What is the difference between cult and religion besides size? (I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this)
Kai TIng wrote:
there is also the "big brother is watching" kind of mind control,
it gets better when we realize it is a system – an effective system.
for example, @ 4:40 in this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Cv5hZfOmk ; or, if you dont like clicking on links then search youtube, Cult Leader Thinks He's Jesus (Documentary Exclusive), Vice channel with 6.6million views.
they all do pretty much the same thing. why do you suppose Mother's pic is in about every visible space at the zions? because it works, even after you're out. it is a subtle form of watching, which then gets internalized. Because we all tend to monitor our moral compa*ss and not cheat outside of a boundary we set for ourselves. that boundary is greatly influenced by the groups we associate with. it is also sticky, meaning that it stays with us even after we leave the group.
cult should not be confused with religion.
while we are all influenced by our surroundings, a cult system works in such a way that greatly prevents those inside of it from hearing the other side of things. our information becomes monopolized. I doubt that anyone in any cult-like group thinks they are isolated from the world or any type of information, however. but that brings us back to boundaries, which we learn and internalize from the groups we associate with. typically, the outsider can see the problem but the insider cannot. Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do. very insightful, actually – they were rule followers in a system in which it was blasphemy or personally dangerous to think outside of it. I would consider my self christian and I dont think those that reject God are doomed to hell. if that were the case then Jesus told the story of the prodigal son for no reason whatsoever. it does kinda suck to have to constantly question just about everything, so there is a trade-off and being in a group and being surrounded by lots of friends is nice. obviously it is a moral problem to be part of that if you can see the deception. those people eventually find their way out one way or another.
@Kai: what you say is true, there is a definite "us against them" mentality and the idea promoted that everything that is not associated with them is from the devil. You have answered one of your own questions there. Cults promote an us against them mentality, that is one of the identifying characteristics of a cult. Anyone not in their specific church is wrong and against them. Mainstream churches don't do that. There isn't hatred against other churches and a promotion of non-cooperation between mainstream Christian churches. In our town, they get together for all kinds of coordinated activities, and I have never heard of any pastors or ministers condemning the other churches or their members. And they don't say that you can't go into another church or it is like "cheating on God." The WMS has said that to its members.
As far as the Big Brother mentality, I also agree that this is a characteristic of the WMS and they use it to intimidate people. However, they cannot sue anyone for telling the truth or expressing a valid opinion.
I am for freedom of religion. It is not the belief that is the problem with the WMS, it is the behavior, the very destructive and controlling behavior. The behavior that hurts its members and their relationships with friends and family, their finances, their careers, and even sometimes, their health. Cults hurt, they don't help. Religion is supposed to be a positive thing. That is my opinion., and the opinion of many others.
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