- Topic
I have been reading a book called "Difficult Scriptures" and in this book the pastor reveals details of how they were mislead, how they in turn mislead others the same way, and how they are coming to realize how misinformed they really were. I'm going to quote several parts that recently touched me. They may seem a little dissimilar as they come from a couple different parts of the book. I hope this reaches into all of you.
Paul, in his writtings contrast the ten commandments, sabbaths, special days, sacrifices, etc… with shadows of things to come. The things to come that he refers to is Jesus. Jesus is the light and all od the former things were the shadows. "When contrasted with substance, shadow suggest that which is fleeting, changing, temporary, or imperminanent, as in Psalm 109:23, "I am gone like a shadow when it lengthens." Here, David likens his exhistence to a shadow that grows longer and longer as the day declines, until at sunset, it disappears and is gone."
"Bible students will also be familiar with the use of shadow in a verse that describes God the Father. We read in James 1:17 that "every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning." (NKJV)"
Col. 2:17 These are shadows of things that were to come, the reality, however is found in Christ.
"Paul said, "the things to come have come." And the things that anticipated then and prefigured them, whether they were days or sacrifices (and he used the same term for both) are temporary shadows. We no longer need to cling to the shadows or celebrate the shadows. Neither must we staunchly defend the shadows as essential to understanding God's plan of salvation. Nor can we require of others that they celebrate and observe the shadows as something essential for their salvation. We, as members or former members of the Worldwide Church of God, would have little or no trouble seeing this if we hadn't been so heavily programmed to believe otherwise. I have on several occasions even heard some ministers insist that you cannot understand the plan of salvation at all without the holy days. I am quite certain that such a thought would never have occured to Paul."
This last part struck me pretty good seeing as how this minister openly realized the "PROGRAMMING" that his group was participating in. Let's go on.
"Seeking to put sin out of our lives by the power of the Christ in us through the Holy Spirit? Is that incomprehensible to Christians without certain days? We have always said in the Worldwide Church of God that the Feast of Trumpets pictures Christ Second Coming at the last trump, and indeed it may. But with entire, clear cut chapters such as Matthew 24, I Corinthians 15, and II Thessalonians 2, and the powerful apocalyptic language of the Book of Revelation, can we honestly believe that it is impossible to understand the Second Coming of Christ and it's role in God's plan, without keeping an Old Testament festival? Aren't the major events of God's plan of salvation clearly spelled out in Scripture? Don't the teaching passages of God's Word make salvation clear even without the interpretation of Old Covenant days? Must we insist, as some still do, that we must understand and observe certain days in order to understand salvation and to be saved? You will search in vain to find that idea in the New Testament."
What did Paul need in order to preach God's gospel of salvation at Corinth? Jesus Christ and the true meaning of each of the sabbaths and annual festivals? Jesus Christ and the law of Moses? Jesus Christ and the prophecies of future events in God's plan? No! Paul needed nothing "except Jesus Christ and Him crucified."
Where do people get the idea that understanding certain days is essential for salvation? Not from the Bible!
You might be surprised to learn that the phrase "the Ten Commandments" cannot be found in the Nwe Testament and that no New Testament writer or speaker ever seeks to support his position by appealing to the fact that something is found in the Ten Commandments.
I hope this helps bring light into your lives in some way. Light disspells darkness. Thank you for taking time to read this.
Joshua, thank you for sharing. Before joining the church I used to read EVERYTHING (novels, newspapers, news magazines, historical books, works of fiction, etc.). Upon joining the church I even purchased some of the “history” books they cited as evidence to prove their truth. I was always seeking to be educated on all they were teaching. There came a point when I only relied on their “research”. Now that my mind is being cleared off all the programming I have begun to read again. I’m starting slowly with just novels but eventually I want to study to find out which parts of their doctrine is true and what is false (for my own knowledge and piece of mind).
I applaud everyone for making such efforts to debunk the church’s doctrine. You may think you’re helping yourselves therapeutically but you’re helping me so much more than you know. Hopefully we can look back on all of this 20 years from new & laugh because the world hasn’t ended yet. Again, thank you Joshua.
Disturbed, were those history books available to the public, or were they put out by the church? If they’re public would you mind posting the titles? Would love to see them.
They are public books. The History of Christianity (A Lion’s Handbook), The Story of the Christian Church (Hurlbut), The Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius Pamphilus, The Great Roman-Jewish War (Josephus), The History of the First Council of Nice (Dean Dudley), The Two Babylons (Rev Alexander Hislop).
I have more but I have to dig through them. Now that my mind is becoming more free I will eventually go back through them with an objective mind.
The story of how the Worldwide Church of God became Grace Communion International is wonderful. Very inspiring how they were able to not only realize they had been deceived, but to turn around and fix it. Here's the story as a documentary for anyone who hasn't seen it yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWAtvE1xiRk.
Disturbed, one book on the list caught my eye: The Two Babylons. It was the basis for the later book Babylon Mystery Religion by Ralph Woodrow, who later learned of how faulty The Two Babylons book was and so withdrew his own book and published The Babylon Connection? instead (http://www.ralphwoodrow.org/books/pages/babylon-mystery.html). That's another inspiring story how someone realized their deception and corrected it publically.
I have not read any of Ralph Woodrow's books in totality but I am aware that many cults like the wmscog quote his earlier beliefs and conveniently ignore the fact that he completely changed his stance later in life.
@Joshua…first you have to realize this organization is about money. Secondly, they are atheists. How can anyone fear God sleep at night after doing the things the church is being accused of. No God fearing person with a conscience could do these things. No God fearing person would lead God’s people to destruction by telling them to worship the queen of heaven aka false god.
Deuteronomy 13:1-5 “…Let us follow other gods (gods you have not known) and let us worship them, you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. (5) That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against The Lord you God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way The Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.”
The evil must be purged from amongst us! Let us unite and legally purge this evil from amongst us!
There are yet some really good people still at Wmscog…. This is why I try to refrain from condemning them. It could easily be me. My beef has always been with its leadership.
FTOS has spoken what he felt compelled to speak but it still doesn't discredit the great people that are still there. They are there because they feel they are doing the right thing. The division the church causes among friends, families and so on, is unanimous. I feel we have a vengeful Christ on the loose.
Don’t get me wrong Sarah2013…I am not referring to the innocent members inside wmscog. I was once in there too. I’m speaking of those who brought this mess to America in the first place. Had they not come with their destructive, money hungry ways we wouldn’t need this forum. We would not have been denying the True Almighty God by worshipping Zhang & ASH who are NOT God.
I'm with Sarah and Disturbed totally on this, echoing that there are great people in there. Innocent people who are being duped. I am not against the members, I am against the deceptive, hungry leadership as well. I love my son, but these people who are controlling him are evil and they are damaging him.
I have to say there is no reason to believe they are atheists they could be misotheists like Satan is
@Simon…even satan acknowledges God, for he wanted to be higher than The Most High. I have a conscience. I could not take advantage of people, play Jedi mind tricks on them, take their money & time and go home to my mansion at the end of the day and laugh at the people. That’s not Godly nor God fearing. Even the most money hungry “Babylon” church doesn’t do this much damage. They (Babylon) fleece the flock of money, not of their time nor their faith in God. Believe what you want Simon. Maybe this didn’t affect you as much as it did others or maybe I’m just real sensitive about it right now.
The fact he believes in God is my point:
Isaiah 14:12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far reaches of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will make myself like the Most High.’
Disturbed wrote:
Don't get me wrong Sarah2013…I am not referring to the innocent members inside wmscog. I was once in there too. I'm speaking of those who brought this mess to America in the first place. Had they not come with their destructive, money hungry ways we wouldn't need this forum. We would not have been denying the True Almighty God by worshipping Zhang & ASH who are NOT God.
I am with you, Disturbed. You can count on that. I got your point the first time for sure. Just voicing our subtext, if you know what I mean. That way they don't assume we don't understand that bit also.
Simon wrote:
I have to say there is no reason to believe they are atheists they could be misotheists like Satan is
That would exclude the members for the most part, don't you think? Its members believe they have a zeal for God which is why they are there, on the contrary.
Sarah2013 wrote:
Simon wrote:
I have to say there is no reason to believe they are atheists they could be misotheists like Satan is
That would exclude the members for the most part, don't you think? Its members believe they have a zeal for God which is why they are there, on the contrary.
the leadership not the members 🙂
I figured you meant that.
Joshua wrote:
Is there anyone in our forum that is a member that went through the changes with the Worldwide Church og God? I would love to have a conversation with you. Please PM me anytime.
Which one is Worldwide Church og God?
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