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From what I have study with my friend and ALL the post that I have read at this Forum this really sounds like the church, Can a member or ex-member tell me what they think, according to their experience. How close is this to the reality?
THANK YOU!
I'd say a lot of it is in WMSCOG like 90%
Simon wrote:
I'd say a lot of it is in WMSCOG like 90%
I read the list and I can see all of it in the wms. Which elements do you think do not fit Shimon? Just curious.
Thanks 🙂
This is a video about Mind Control of 6 Chapters and explains how it happens. For the Members that are visiting the website so they can understand what is happening to them if it fits to their experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nz8Ah32NgY
1, 10, 11, 14,17,19, 21
Simon wrote:
1, 10, 11, 14,17,19, 21
Based on my experience, here are my thoughts:
1. Hypnosis–One could argue the part about having your subjects almost asleep. I saw many people falling asleep during services, videos, longer studies, etc.
10. Verbal Abuse–Some of the "public rebuking" people have witnessed can fall into this category.
11. Sleep Deprivation & Fatigue–I'm surprised that you would disagree with this one. Many people have complained about the extreme time commitment, long hours, and little sleep. I remember being in the wms until almost midnight some nights.
14. Confession–This fits into the "fragrances" I observed after the first sabbath services and on other occasions. Members would get up in front of everyone and say how they were tempted by satan and overcame said temptation, blah blah. There was almost always crying involved.
17. Isolation–A lot of people here in the forum have complained about being isolated from the "worldly" people outside of the wms. Myself included.
19. Change of Diet–I was told that I should accept the food given to me in "zion" because to reject it was like rejecting food that your physical mother would cook for you. I was not allowed to leave in between services on a Saturday to eat elsewhere. It was always the same food and not what I was used to eating.
21. No Questions–In the beginning I was told to ask questions but when the questions became more challenging for them, I was told that it was Satan that was making me doubt or that I just needed to study more. Then of course when I asked too many challenging questions, I was isolated from the other "sisters". So that's back to number 17 lol.
Anyone else see any on that list that doesn't apply to the wms they visited?
Emily wrote:
Simon wrote:
1, 10, 11, 14,17,19, 21
Based on my experience, here are my thoughts:
1. Hypnosis–One could argue the part about having your subjects almost asleep. I saw many people falling asleep during services, videos, longer studies, etc.
10. Verbal Abuse–Some of the "public rebuking" people have witnessed can fall into this category.
11. Sleep Deprivation & Fatigue–I'm surprised that you would disagree with this one. Many people have complained about the extreme time commitment, long hours, and little sleep. I remember being in the wms until almost midnight some nights.
14. Confession–This fits into the "fragrances" I observed after the first sabbath services and on other occasions. Members would get up in front of everyone and say how they were tempted by satan and overcame said temptation, blah blah. There was almost always crying involved.
17. Isolation–A lot of people here in the forum have complained about being isolated from the "worldly" people outside of the wms. Myself included.
19. Change of Diet–I was told that I should accept the food given to me in "zion" because to reject it was like rejecting food that your physical mother would cook for you. I was not allowed to leave in between services on a Saturday to eat elsewhere. It was always the same food and not what I was used to eating.
21. No Questions–In the beginning I was told to ask questions but when the questions became more challenging for them, I was told that it was Satan that was making me doubt or that I just needed to study more. Then of course when I asked too many challenging questions, I was isolated from the other "sisters". So that's back to number 17 lol.
Anyone else see any on that list that doesn't apply to the wms they visited?
I only fell asleep when the subjects were boring or if I was tired. Usually on the Sabbath after lunch because that's my normal nap time or at the early morning services. I have to disagree with confession because the fragrance of zion is not a confession session. It's to share blessings and good news. What people choose to say is entirely up to them but it's purpose is not to confess your sin. I never felt isolated but I think that's because I was so disobedient.. =) Typically, you're not allowed to leave zion on the Sabbath to go do anything. I was told it was desecrating the Sabbath even if you were going to pick up a member. You could leave if you really wanted to (I left all the time.. again, disobedience) but it is HIGHLY encouraged you don't leave for any reason because nothing is more important than F&M.
I am just happy to say that I never got to participate in this "fragrance of zion". Though I would agree with Renita that it is voluntary, seeing other people doing it mentally pressures a person to do it also. Witnessing it often and repeatedly will also make the person feel that it's okay to do it, it becomes a tradition and it will become mentally compulsory. Am I making sense here? Anyway it's all about psychological tactics and the wmscog are using plenty of it.
I agree Elie, and have seen many types of manipulations and psychological tactics used by them. It only SEEMS voluntary. There is actually a very refined process behind it all.
Well, my brother doesn't reply to my chats anymore. He is always offline. Maybe they started their "isolation" technique on him.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
I am just happy to say that I never got to participate in this "fragrance of zion". Though I would agree with Renita that it is voluntary, seeing other people doing it mentally pressures a person to do it also. Witnessing it often and repeatedly will also make the person feel that it's okay to do it, it becomes a tradition and it will become mentally compulsory. Am I making sense here? Anyway it's all about psychological tactics and the wmscog are using plenty of it.
I don't agree with this. It's not different from sharing experiences of the week during Sunday dinner at grandma's house. In my family, everyone used to gather at someones house or a restaraunt for dinner. Because this was almost the only time we all got together, we would catch each other up on what was happening. It's practically the same thing only we didn't name it. Yes, when you see other people tell a fragrance it makes you feel more comfortable to share yours. Just like watching someone sing in front a crowd repeatedly might make someone feel like it's ok for them to sing, too.. though they probably shouldn't. People watch others do things repeatedly all the time but that doesn't mean it's mental pressure.
I see it like a FB status. You're telling all your friends and family and/or some people you probably don't know very well what you did, are doing, or plan to do; what happened, is happening, or you hope to happen. The only difference is sharing a fragrance is in person, not cyber.. which they also do.
Sharing experiences at grandma's house is different because you are with your family. You trust your family members NOT to deceive you or share your experience to other people with malice, though ribbing you would be common. I've experienced sharing every year in our retreats all throughout highschool and college, most of the time it makes you feel mentally drained. I am not saying that it is not good to share in front of other people, but knowing this "sharing" method is done inside a CULT makes me doubt their intentions for it.
One "brother" said in his fragrance that he was upset that he had to miss a sabbath service because his child was sick and it was satan that was ultimately stopping him from observing the day. Turns my stomach.
The Bible tells us that God knows our hearts. If you don't make it to church one day (assuming it's "required" for salvation) because you have to stay home and take care of an ill child, it doesn't make sense that God would hold it against you. I mean what are you supposed to do? Leave your child at home alone for 16 hours? Or force the child to attend church with you for 16 hours and risk making everyone else sick? I mean come on…
It seemed to me like more of a public apology.
jellybean wrote:
This is a video about Mind Control of 6 Chapters and explains how it happens. For the Members that are visiting the website so they can understand what is happening to them if it fits to their experience. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nz8Ah32NgY
Sorry, tbh, this video was *yawn*. Good info on phinweb though.
Ever considered an understanding of group dynamics?
Why will "no one" question? Answer: because no one questions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4S1LLrSzVE
Elievalkyrie wrote:
Sharing experiences at grandma's house is different because you are with your family. You trust your family members NOT to deceive you or share your experience to other people with malice, though ribbing you would be common. I've experienced sharing every year in our retreats all throughout highschool and college, most of the time it makes you feel mentally drained. I am not saying that it is not good to share in front of other people, but knowing this "sharing" method is done inside a CULT makes me doubt their intentions for it.
And I trusted my group like I trusted my family. And because my group trusted other people in Zion, I trusted them too. Just like my family trusts certain people and I trust them simply because they do. But I have been betrayed by my family and it hurt me so much that I still hold on to it today. And I feel the same hurt from the people I trusted in Zion. My family is a huge cult. They guilt you into talking and then talk about you and what you said with other people. They make you feel bad for doing something with your own thought. The clothes you choose to wear, though they aren't provacative. The way you talk, though it's not improper. My family wants me to be just like them, to think the way they do, look the way they do, and act the way they do.
Renita,
Controlling relationships; so sorry to hear the ones that should be supporting you for who you are are also abusing that trust.
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