Are There Any Similarities Between the WMSCOG and Scientology?

  • Creator
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  • #6911
    Emily
    Participant

    Just wanted to put this thought out there for discussion.  Watch this interview that Steve Hassan did with Karen Pressley, former member of Scientology, and see if you can note any similarities.  I'll post my thoughts soon.

    http://vimeo.com/45603447

  • #46972

    Sueno Maruyama
    Participant

    Thought control.  That is a very distinct similarity with the Ahnian cult ….. thanks for that link!

    #46973

    Emily
    Participant

    Sueno Maruyama wrote:

    Thought control.  That is a very distinct similarity with the Ahnian cult ….. thanks for that link!

    I'm glad you enjoyed the video.  It may help to expand on what you mean by "thought control" so that readers can understand a bit better about what you mean and your experience.

    Wow.  I just finished watching the video and I heard quite a few similarities.  This is a bulleted list of what I observed/experienced while in the wms and even after I left.

    • intrusion into marriages
    • shunning of former members
    • very little time spent between families.  parents out recruiting while the children were "cared for" in the church
    • indoctrination of children (I remember watching children about 8 years old reciting the first studies to one another, they were like little sponges)
    • Scientology filing lawsuits agains people who spoke out after leaving the group.

    Has anyone else observed similar situations?

    #46974

    Sueno Maruyama
    Participant

    +Well, thought control is the attempt by someone or some organization or some "group" to influence the thought process of a person to such a degree that they manipulate the person under their influence to follow their instructions ….. it is clear from this video that Tom Cruise's "Scientologists" have developed techniques to accomplish this …. as have WMSCOG, MOONIES, and many others ….

    #46975

    Simon
    Participant

    I have to agree with both of you

    they also both have some problem with psychology

    #46976

    Questioninginla
    Participant
    #46977

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    Personally, I'd say the difference is not much. However, Wmscog beliefs in a different Yeshua….  while, Scientology is more alien (out of this earth) based.

    #46978

    Ms Freedom
    Participant

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Personally, I'd say the difference is not much. However, Wmscog beliefs in a different Yeshua….  while, Scientology is more alien (out of this earth) based.

     All cults have weird beliefs (the WMSCOG worshipping a living Korean woman and a dead Korean man – weird) but the common ground is the behavior. In this case – separating from family and friends. Cults discourage family bonds because if they remain, the probability of the cult member leaving the cult increases dramatically.

    I was having a conversation with a coworker who is a Mormon and we were discussing the Amish being a cult. The thing that amazes me about the Amish is that they will interact with people outside of their faith, but if their child rejects the Amish faith, they are shunned. My coworker said she understood that because the Mormons do the same thing. They teach that people outside their faith have not been taught the "truth". The children have been exposed to the "truth" and if they reject it, it is of their own free will and they should be shunned/ex-communicated, etc. Mormons – Amish – different beliefs, behavior the same.

    #46979

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    Ms Freedom wrote:

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Personally, I'd say the difference is not much. However, Wmscog beliefs in a different Yeshua….  while, Scientology is more alien (out of this earth) based.

     All cults have weird beliefs (the WMSCOG worshipping a living Korean woman and a dead Korean man – weird) but the common ground is the behavior. In this case – separating from family and friends. Cults discourage family bonds because if they remain, the probability of the cult member leaving the cult increases dramatically.

    I was having a conversation with a coworker who is a Mormon and we were discussing the Amish being a cult. The thing that amazes me about the Amish is that they will interact with people outside of their faith, but if their child rejects the Amish faith, they are shunned. My coworker said she understood that because the Mormons do the same thing. They teach that people outside their faith have not been taught the "truth". The children have been exposed to the "truth" and if they reject it, it is of their own free will and they should be shunned/ex-communicated, etc. Mormons – Amish – different beliefs, behavior the same.

    Hi: Mormons and or Amish…. are a bit off to me but nothing compared to Wmscog or Scientology. They are just a bit twisted. However, my best friend is mormon and she is aware of my response. Lol….

    #46980

    Sally
    Participant

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Ms Freedom wrote:

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Personally, I'd say the difference is not much. However, Wmscog beliefs in a different Yeshua….  while, Scientology is more alien (out of this earth) based.

     All cults have weird beliefs (the WMSCOG worshipping a living Korean woman and a dead Korean man – weird) but the common ground is the behavior. In this case – separating from family and friends. Cults discourage family bonds because if they remain, the probability of the cult member leaving the cult increases dramatically.

    I was having a conversation with a coworker who is a Mormon and we were discussing the Amish being a cult. The thing that amazes me about the Amish is that they will interact with people outside of their faith, but if their child rejects the Amish faith, they are shunned. My coworker said she understood that because the Mormons do the same thing. They teach that people outside their faith have not been taught the "truth". The children have been exposed to the "truth" and if they reject it, it is of their own free will and they should be shunned/ex-communicated, etc. Mormons – Amish – different beliefs, behavior the same.

    Hi: Mormons and or Amish…. are a bit off to me but nothing compared to Wmscog or Scientology. They are just a bit twisted. However, my best friend is mormon and she is aware of my response. Lol….

     Sarah, Mormonism IS a cult and you can easily research the similarities between it and the wmscog. I believe you will find that there are many

    #46981

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    Sally wrote:

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Ms Freedom wrote:

    Sarah2013 wrote:

    Personally, I'd say the difference is not much. However, Wmscog beliefs in a different Yeshua….  while, Scientology is more alien (out of this earth) based.

     All cults have weird beliefs (the WMSCOG worshipping a living Korean woman and a dead Korean man – weird) but the common ground is the behavior. In this case – separating from family and friends. Cults discourage family bonds because if they remain, the probability of the cult member leaving the cult increases dramatically.

    I was having a conversation with a coworker who is a Mormon and we were discussing the Amish being a cult. The thing that amazes me about the Amish is that they will interact with people outside of their faith, but if their child rejects the Amish faith, they are shunned. My coworker said she understood that because the Mormons do the same thing. They teach that people outside their faith have not been taught the "truth". The children have been exposed to the "truth" and if they reject it, it is of their own free will and they should be shunned/ex-communicated, etc. Mormons – Amish – different beliefs, behavior the same.

    Hi: Mormons and or Amish…. are a bit off to me but nothing compared to Wmscog or Scientology. They are just a bit twisted. However, my best friend is mormon and she is aware of my response. Lol….

     Sarah, Mormonism IS a cult and you can easily research the similarities between it and the wmscog. I believe you will find that there are many

    What's a cult, really?

    #46982

    Simon
    Participant

    many call everyone they disagree with a cult

    #46983

    Smurf
    Participant

    Totally…that Simon guy is such a cult.    XD

    #46984

    Sally
    Participant

    @ Sarah, there are very distinct characteristics that make a group a cult and I see they have all been discussed here over and over. If you are serious, I would be happy to list them and i mean that sincerely, not sarcasm.

    @simon, I wouldn't say many, more like a small percentage of haters that will do that. The only problem I sometimes have with identifying a cult is that some groups are very "borderline". With that, if a group is borderline, I feel it's safe to say, one should probably stay away from them.

    Mormons, Amish, Scientology, JW's, Moonies and those like them, are NOT borderline, they are cults.

    #46985

    Simon
    Participant

    I would say most actually

    Get it actually haha

    #46986

    Sarah2013
    Participant

    Sally, do list them, please.

    #46987

    Sally
    Participant

     

    <h1 align=”justify”>

    Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups – Revised

    Janja Lalich, Ph.D. & Michael D. Langone, Ph.D.

     

    Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.

    Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine if there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine if a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.

    ‪<small><input name=”C14″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” />The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law. </small>

    ‪<small><input name=”C15″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

    ‪<small><input name=”C16″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).

    ‪<small><input name=”C17″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).

    ‪<small><input name=”C18″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s) and members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).

    ‪<small><input name=”C19″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

    ‪<small><input name=”C20″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).

    ‪<small><input name=”C21″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members' participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before joining the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).

    ‪<small><input name=”C22″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt iin order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

    ‪<small><input name=”C23″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before joining the group.

    ‪<small><input name=”C24″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

    ‪<small><input name=”C25″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The group is preoccupied with making money.

    ‪<small><input name=”C26″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.

    ‪<small><input name=”C27″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

    ‪<small><input name=”C28″ type=”checkbox” value=”ON” /></small>The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

    That is a good list

    #46988

    MountainMom
    Participant

    This is a really good list. 

    #46989

    Sally
    Participant

    MountainMom wrote:

    This is a really good list. 

     thank you Mountain Mom, nice to meet you btw, I enjoy reading your post's. I think it's a good list too, sorry I cut and pasted so it's a little hard to read and it might not cover everything 

    #46990

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Nice to meet you as well. 

    #46991

    Simon
    Participant

    I was having trouble reading Sally's post so I googled the part that was less gibberishy and got this : http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis.htm  (just in case anyone else is having trouble reading

    It seems to me WMSCOG fits all but maybe 3 in my experiences and going with other former members stories and family members stories that goes up to fitting all of them…  

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