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Hi, all. I've been asked a question by someone researching the wmscog, and I'm not quite sure on the answer for this one. I have an impression from how members speak of 'father' and 'mother' and from what I've read in sermons, but I don't recall it specifically addressed, and I want to see if my impression is backed up by what you all have heard.
Members / ex-members especially, can you help?
Here's the question:
Do they teach that God the Mother is limited ONLY as the physical manifestation of Jang Gil-ja, or if she is in fact in Heaven and on Earth simultaneously?
Same question about Ahnsahnghong: Was the fullness of God the Father ONLY in his body at the time Ahnsahnghong was living, or was the Father in Heaven able to manifest himself as Ahnsahnghong while remaining in heaven at the same time?
@mountain I like the story! We had a mother come get her daughter, yelling and screaming. “I want my child, NOW…this is a cult!”. The Overseer tried to calm her down, then even tried to yell back, “You need to calm down”. The mother didnt give up, and “zion” brought the 20year old out of a study, to the mother.
UntouchableJ wrote:
@mountain I like the story! We had a mother come get her daughter, yelling and screaming. "I want my child, NOW…this is a cult!". The Overseer tried to calm her down, then even tried to yell back, "You need to calm down". The mother didnt give up, and "zion" brought the 20year old out of a study, to the mother.
Lol! I like your story too! I am glad they coughed up her daughter. It sounds like they bit off more than they could chew with that mother.
This is in regards to the heading of the topic when i was there.i was told mother exist both in heaven and on earth.Mother can even see the bad angels behind us when she is talking to us,and how they are troubling us basicaly she knows eveything what is going to happen to us and how the bad angels are going to trouble us.At times i think if she knows all things why do things fail,for example if we take a new place for zion on rent they say we have to ask mother then some times we hear mother said no this place is no good for us.Even though we take a place mother said yes we will face problems and in six months we had to leave the place due to neighbour being disturbed,then does she not know of people having affairs in diffrent zion cant she warn the pastor about things happening very strange.Now in mumbai zion the ladies and gents sit in seperate rooms for worhsip and study,they cant see each other or talk to each other.Why? They have a zion in such a remote area near a cow shed so that they want be noticed why?.all of this if she can look in to heaven and earth at the same time and knows and can see everything.
@abigail I also wondered, “Why would God allow such bad things in Zion?” I hated the excuse, “we have to bear present suffering”. When our overseer would yell, or make racial/harsh jokes, members would say, “We’re all sinners”. But God allows this? Members being “advised” to have abortions, etc. Jesus wouldnt allow those things, and Jesus’ and ASH/Mothers nature are not the same.
I met heavenly mother personally. The leaders in the church support her any way they can. My overseer would look for opportunities to speak lies to try to show us she is God. From my experience they would lie about her being God. Right? The ends (the people being obedient, bowing, and giving tithes etc) are supposed to justify the means ( the lies, the leaders saying she is God). If only it was true. The deception seems to be their livelihood.
In my opinion, mama z is a human being like you and me. She is playing the part as they see fit. She doesn’t know anything out going on in the churches unless she gets a report from the leaders.
In my opinion its dishonest trade (ezekiel 28:18) they give you a lie, you come in for a study, they give you a lie, you attend service, they give you a lie, you get baptized, they give you a lie, you give offerings… etc.
Everything we used to do would justify their means, their ways.
I glad your guys want to do something to stop them. But remember their doctrine. If you hinder them, they might use it to their benefit. They might tell the members being hindered that they are being persecuted and find bible verses about it to keep them thinking they are in the right.
Maybe some advertising is in order. I would give some cash to a: go fund me project.
Do you know what they tell the members when there are people protesting with signs outside the church? The leaders say the protesters know their souls are condemned can’t receive salvation… And do you know what they say about Genny and other people with websites? More bad stuff…
In other words, be mindful of what you do.
@UntouchableJ Very true when i was in zion the leaders and the pastor always used this word We are sinners when ever we complained about some member.I agree with you regarding the abortion but as i said before that the sprit is formed only after the child is born this is what the pastor who was in Korea told the large group leader when she innocently told the member it is a sin to do an abortion and was also fired for misguiding the member who was a gospel worker.I guess mother could see and hear everything who can look in to heaven and earth at the same time.As per my knoewledge every thing is controlled by the assembly in Korea they only make members fools that we need to ask mother be it personal or official and they do it when they cant answer a question.Really it is only the cheif pastor who makes all the decission with the help of the assembly.As for me this is more of a family buisness,as i heard from the santacruz decon that the chief pastors wife is mothers phycial daughter,and mother driver is Ahns son ,please let me know if it is true.Please PM me if you have any info.Slowly the cat is being let out of the bag.
Mayor and Mike wrote:
I glad your guys want to do something to stop them. But remember their doctrine. If you hinder them, they might use it to their benefit. They might tell the members being hindered that they are being persecuted and find bible verses about it to keep them thinking they are in the right.
Maybe some advertising is in order. I would give some cash to a: go fund me project.
Do you know what they tell the members when there are people protesting with signs outside the church? The leaders say the protesters know their souls are condemned can't receive salvation… And do you know what they say about Genny and other people with websites? More bad stuff…
In other words, be mindful of what you do.
Well, one good thing about all the lies the leaders tell……..finally they will say something that is so obviously untrue that people just can't swallow it anymore. And once the toothpaste is out of the tube, there is no putting it back. Like one former member described it, "once there is a crack in the dam, there is no holding back reality, it all just comes flooding in." The more lies told, the greater possibility that they will slip up. And they have made some real errors lately!
I have to say, any member that met Genny would doubt the lies the leaders say, as she is such a great person.
@mountain. very true!! Thats what helped us. Being told contradiction after contradiction…by 3 different Overseers, over 4 1/2 years. See, people remember these things, these lies. And, the same excuses ; “That overseer/deacon mis-spoke.” That brother was misinformed, he could not have been told that.” it got old, fast.
The tooth paste is out of the tube? Hehehe. I got to remember that one. That’s better than, the proof is in the pudding. Come to think of it, when was the proof ever in there?
Yes, we agree. Too many lies have been spoken. Its the nature of the beast.
I think we are all generally good people. Genny, I assume you are the same Genny they were talking doo doo about and not the other Genny. Sorry to bring it up, just making my points.
I hear ’em be talking lots of doo doo all the time. I can almost hear them speaking about Mayor and Mike after all the fire I’m been speaking about them. Like when I say they need to shut down everything. I can almost hear the doo doo now.
Nope, I suspect you are the only Genny. But looking back, I can’t believe some of the things WMS have come up with. But it’s good to chat about it. Nice to meet you as well.
That’s another good verse. Great is your reward? Very nice.
Just to answer the headline of the post I for one think that the nature of the gods of this cult resmble Confucianism which is a huge part of Korean culture
Genny, if I remember correctly they said that people stand outside zion and protest with signs are the ones who know they are condemned and cannot receive salvation.
I assume you have a website Genny. I think it was in the “staff of Moses” class, the ones who have websites and slander are like emperor Constantine, they were born for only one purpose, to distort the truth, blah blah blah. Something like that, I never recorded their words, word for word.
In my opinion, WMS slanders people in order to justify themselves.
At least they are saying these things behind closed doors and not in public.
But let’s get back to the topic at hand. The nature of WMSCOG gods…
Thank you for your information so far.
So it appears that the WMSCOG's teachings are not uniform.
However, based on what a few of you said, Ahn Sahng-hong (deceased) and Jang Gil-ja are supposed to be physically manifest on earth, while remaining distinct in some manner from their physical bodies by remaining in heaven.
This is probably the only defensible position anyway. Being manifest in bodily form alone would create more problems for their theology.
I ordered a few of their books off Amazon, but won’t receive them for a while. Hopefully, I can find some concrete material from their head pastor in those books, but I will not be surprised if each is 300 pages of fluff.
I have already submitted the research paper on the WMSCOG; however, I am continuing work on the project so that I can use it here in Korea. I have also started working on some pamphlets combatting some of their basic arguments.
@mikeforester06 You will find many wholes in their doctrine.
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