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The WMSCOG makes a big deal out of two things; keeping the Sabbath and celebrating the Passover. For both things, I understand they teach that the catholic church abolished them in the 4th century.
I am starting this thread to discuss the issue of the issue of the Passover and about when and how it was abolished by the catholic church. I request wmscog members and former members to weigh in.
I am not clear about what the passover is as celebrated by the wmscog. What aspect of it was abolished in the 4th century.
Blessing food is traditional in all religions id imagine
He fulfilled the atonement sacrfice on the “wrong” day the Sabbath. sacrifice on the “wrong” day etc in fact he definitively fulfilled more on the “wrong” day so we can’t argue he needed to be sacrificed on Passover any more than atonement day or Sabbath
emil wrote:
^ John starts his narrative of the events by saying John 13:1 – It was just before the Passover Festival.
You guys know that Jesus was the passover lamb. From John's gospel it is clear that the last supper was not the passover meal. The passover meal would have to include the passover lamb which hadn't been slain yet. Jesus was going to be the passover lamb the next day. The curtain in the temple was torn in two at the moment of his death, the exact moment when the lambs were slain in the temple.
Do you guys believe all that?
So, then why does Matthew [Matt 26:20-26] say that on the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread [Lev 23:6], Jesus and His disciples ate the bread and wine? That's the day after the PO.
I'm not arguing. I'm just trying to undestand, btw.
fromtheotherside wrote:
emil wrote:
^ John starts his narrative of the events by saying John 13:1 – It was just before the Passover Festival. You still can't prove it's not part of the Passover week!
You guys know that Jesus was the passover lamb. From John's gospel it is clear that the last supper was not the passover meal. So you're saying the bible conflicts with it's self when Mat and Luke clearly said it's the Passover meal, nice one! The passover meal would have to include the passover lamb which hadn't been slain yet. No biblical proof. Jesus was going to be the passover lamb the next day. The curtain in the temple was torn in two at the moment of his death, the exact moment when the lambs were slain in the temple. Still no biblical proof!
Do you guys believe all that? NO!LOlz
It was a Jewish traditional family meal.
You said, "Do not neglect any appointed time chosen by Jesus who is God and don't neglect any of his methods including feet washing because the feet are unclean and must be made clean for Passover as Jesus himself says your body is clean, but still your feet need to be washed."
The custom of washing the feet was not limited to passover but was done all the time so you can hardly claim it was passover on the basis of that fact.
You still can't prove it's not part of the Passover week!
The week had not started yet. The PO starts on the 14th and the Feast of Unleavened bread starts on the 15th [Lev 23:5-6]. That's why it says it was just before the PO. Just before the PO, Jesus was arrested [John 18: 12] and we know that it was late at night when this happened. Also, Peter denies Him 3 times. After the 3rd time, the rooster crows [John 18:27] which tells us it is now morning [John 18:28]. It was officially the next day. It was the day of the PO but the Jews hadn't eaten the PO yet [John 18:39].
So you're saying the bible conflicts with it's self when Mat and Luke clearly said it's the Passover meal, nice one!
That's how it appears. Plus, in Matthew it says that they took the bread and wine on the 1st day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread which is the 15th [Lev 23:6]. This is the day after the PO.
The curtain in the temple was torn in two at the moment of his death, the exact moment when the lambs were slain in the temple. Still no biblical proof!
Jesus died at twighlight [Matt 27:45-50]. According to John, Jesus was hung on the cross on the day of PO. According to Matthew, Jesus died just as darkness came over which is twighlight, the time the PO lamb had to be slain [Lev 23:5].
Question: John 18:28 said that Jews wanted to eat the PO. But there is no verse that says they left to eat the PO. Even after Jesus died it doesn't say anything more about the PO Feast. Did they "skip" PO that day?
Strawman arguments prove little
further one could argue noone has kept pesach correctly for at least 1944 years
I’m not going to bother wasting my time in the other threads, I’ll just say this here:
Most of you have no idea what your talking about and at most only one of you can be right. Please, argue about Passover more, I want everyone to see how absolutely ignorant this community is concerning not only the gospel of Christ, but also its prophecies.
144000 is mad, bro.
Ya, he mad.
That being said, I can see how he – from a homogeneous environment in which the conveyor belt teaches the one and only way – would think that we are the ones that are ignorant. Yet, a child growing up in an alcoholic environment would not consider that behavior the norm, mainly because said child knows (ie, is ignorant) no other way of life?
This is what is meant by traveling off into the wilderness or into the inner rooms.
Hal wrote:
144000 wrote:
Jewish bible promises that a human son will be born in the flesh and he is mighty God.
Jewish bible promises that God will make a "New covenant" with us.
We are celebrating that New covenant with the Passover of Bread and Wine and feet washing ceremony.
1. No it does not. It promises of an annointed one.
2. No it states, renewal of the covenant.
3. You're taking already noted man made traditions and turning them around like a bad Hall And Oates song.
Then who was Isaiah speaking of in Is 9:6? He said a child, a son, Mighty God.
Emil
No I meant you guys could argue amongst yourselves, Ill comment when this community contradicts itself less.
Hal
Your a Jew, you literally have no idea how to interpret any prophecies from about the greek time period forward.
I have no interest in keeping things which are different from the example of Christ who is God who is king of Zion, and AhnSahngHong who is that very same Christ who is God returned again.
The trinity is not 3 different people, they are all the same person, God.
A bride and her husband are in God’s eyes also considered one, it is also true to call them numerically two physically.
So Two people can pick one amongst themselves to speak in the singular, or both speak together in the plural.
But one person cannot speak in the plural then switch to singular then switch to plural again. Your only compelling argument was the word “Elohim”‘s supposed mistranslation, but it neglects saying “us” “our” and the plural images of God created male and female.
When you want to become better than the people who constantly rebelled against God and misunderstood him at every other generation, and be like the good examples instead of the bad, then I’ll read those ridiculously long lists of obsolete worship methods. I did skim over them and I did’t ignore them, but I have no reason to argue with a Jew at this time.
Back to the Passover, it goes hand-in hand with all the other prophecies. So how do you know that you are reading a prophecy correctly?
Correct me if I’m wrong but I don’t think the Jews ever went 100 years without falling into idolatry and misinterpretations. I mean that was kind of a running gag in the Old Testament.
To suggesst that their 2,200 year stagnation of no more prophets or signs from God should be alarming to Jews in the extreme.
To suggest that they are still doing it right to this day neglects how God constantly prophesies against them saying they will desert him andbetray him and worship false gods and he will scatter them across the earth.
Tell me Hal, if the Jews were correct and empowered by God, what did they do to deserve Jerusalem being sacked and then the holocaust in recent times?
Why did the UN have to give them their country back, instead of angel of the lord driving out thousands of your enemies before every one of your soldiers?
—
Further, to assume that 1,900 years of Christian history was not prophetically significant is also rediculous, all the events set up the stage for the return of Father and the bride during the exact same time period of false prophets.
Yet it is ignored that the set times have been changed (Iraneous previous post was only half-fulfilled)
Nobody is alarmed about the boastful church who has decieved the whole world and how most denominations of today still continue their customs.
Please, shut your eyes tighter and deny it more, I hope this becomes clearer for my brothers and sisters.
144000 wrote:
Hal
Your a Jew, you literally have no idea how to interpret any prophecies from about the greek time period forward.
When do we find out that Hal is either a banker or in the movie business? Being Jewish apparently has an affect on one's intellectual capacities?
Questioninginla
What is, the bible?
People who hold to the Old Testament are spiritually blind, they cannot recognize Jesus or spirituall prophecies they can only become obsessed with physical things and deny any inconvenient warnings about the changing of the priesthood.
Not all Jews are blind, but every person who denies the Christ is.
Messianic Jews being one such type of open-minded Jew.
A Jew, by DEFINITION cannot interpret prophecies of the Christ or anything from “roughly” the time of the greeks and forward. That is no presumtion, their denial of Christ is the admission out of their own mouths.
If they did recieve christ, then they would no longer be a Jew. Is that hard to understand?
144000 wrote:
A Jew, by DEFINITION cannot interpret prophecies of the Christ or anything from "roughly" the time of the greeks and forward. That is no presumtion, their denial of Christ is the admission out of their own mouths.
If they did recieve christ, then they would no longer be a Jew. Is that hard to understand?
No one in my zion understood that
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