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In French we say, quel gaspillage.
wewe…
Lol!
Oui….
WMS brother wrote:
"Lately, especially in 2011, that rumour was circulating about 2012 end of life"
No, no it hasn't.
Some people do in fact believe it. So somebody somehwere said it, but that is not what we actually teach people.
Nobody I know has any idea what the "2012" theory is.
"Numbers 5 is also part of that law which Christians do not follow."
The law, in its entirety, was revised by Christ. Tha tis to say we still continue to keep ALL of the laws, but we observe that there have been changes instituted by Christ, whois God, with authority to change such things.
So yes, some old testament commandments still apply.
"WMS brother, how many years how you been a member of wmscog? Were you able to go to many different states and attend or listen to different zion teachings?"
6 Years, I was the Fruit of someone who was in the truth 2 years before me, and I grilled the Deacon who baptised me in depth for long hours, because I am extremely critical about prophecies and God. The Deacon himeself had fruit that has been in the truth for 3 years prior to my buddy; and I always loved talkign with all them in great depth and detail.
Since you have seen Pastor Ron's video, you do know that he did say that the wmscog stopped (most zions but from what I've heard not all) preaching the 2012 prediction at about year 2007? And if we calculate your years of being a member, we can see that you joined the wmscog in year 2007. So can we safely say that you "might" have not heard of it because it was already stopped at that time? I have no reason to doubt your words but I also have no reason to doubt Pastor Ron.
So I have been in the WMS for 6 years, and possess an accurate retelling of information going back as far as 11 years.
I've been to three different zions, and have been visited by two others when the pastor, missionaries, and deacons flew in so we knew each other and all understood that we all taught the exact same message.
"We all taught the EXACT same message". Okay, first, for me to believe that, I have to also experience it right? I would like to tell you my experience in the wmscog. I was a former member but I did not willingly undergo baptism. I refused three times, and they insisted and persisted so much (also they prepared the baptism materials without asking if I want to be baptize first), the deaconess even gave me bible verses for "immediate" baptism, that I just go along with it. The whole baptism experience was a disaster coz I felt cheated and manipulated into joining. The deacon baptized me saying "In the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". Ahnsanghong's name was not stated throughout the whole baptism. They also did not told me about Zhang (though I already have an idea about her from my brother). One time, I saw a poster of her and asked "Is that person your god the mother?" and the person I questioned was so surprised that I knew. If you look at this whole ordeal that I went through in the hands of that particular zion, and you stated "We all taught the EXACT same message", then why do our stories contradict one another?
In the sermon preaching book volume 1 chapter 9 [Be baptized immediately] it is written:
Introduction – For sinners, baptism is the first step towards the eternal kingdom of heaven after receiving the forgiveniss of sins. We are sinners in urgent need of emancipation from sin, so we must not delay baptism. It is wrong to teach people to be baptized after six months or one year later.
So Elie, thats what exactly happened to you and not to mention in other zion but atleast in the Zion where you got baptized they follow accordingly to whats in the sermon book which wmscod provide.
wonderful question Genny
mpl wrote:
In the sermon preaching book volume 1 chapter 9 [Be baptized immediately] it is written:
Introduction – For sinners, baptism is the first step towards the eternal kingdom of heaven after receiving the forgiveniss of sins. We are sinners in urgent need of emancipation from sin, so we must not delay baptism. It is wrong to teach people to be baptized after six months or one year later.
So Elie, thats what exactly happened to you and not to mention in other zion but atleast in the Zion where you got baptized they follow accordingly to whats in the sermon book which wmscod provide.
Mpl, yes in one of our "sabbath worship" in the zion, I listened to their reasons why baptism must be immediate. I listed down all the biblical verses they provided to support that claim and made a forum topic here that refutes it. You might want to read it. LOL. Here's the link: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=3314
"it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world."
This, I remember this very well.
And I completely understand how people, when they are told "Mother will tell us to stop preaching at the end of the year" when we are discussing a -future- year, may be confused that it meant "next year" 2012, or "this year" 2012. In the past, ten or more years ago, it may -have- been suggested that a future date like 2012 will be the year that it happens as a part of the Tabernacles prophecy. But I can garantee you it wasn't a widespread idea, because I know too many people that never heard of it, going back to Ron's time.
For six years "2012" has not been our preophecy, and for eleven years no one remembers such a teaching, and I'm talking about close friends I knew before the church, not "brainwashed" people.
And no, before the answer to that becomes "well maybe you are being lied to", allow me to use that cop-out first. Maybe you people are being lied to here? Maybe this website is the one which has been given misleading information by people who are exagerrating. More on that below.
"then why are you saving your money,treasures etc that shows you dont belive in god"
We DO say that we should avoid hoarding material possessions, we do say that we believe in God and we should reflect that by treating God as God actually exists as a real and omnipotent presance. That includes having faith in God's immenent coming.
By the points expressed in your post, it is clear to me that a lot of the sensational verses or statements we use to kind of pump people up were remembered, but I see a lack of all the things we say in between. This is a chronic problem of non-believers or from people who fell away. The Sabbath is a long day, our studies go for hours. There are a lot of things we say that the people here don't actually give us credit for.
"if mother says 2012 is the end how many of you belive"
Heres the point; she never said that.
WMS brother wrote:
"it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world."
This, I remember this very well.
Then please tell me what "fulfillment of the feast of tabernacles" means.
Elievalkyrie wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
Elievalkyrie wrote:
The Secret of the Forgiveness of Sins? I didn't know God have some kind of a secret just to forgive sins, that really sounds weird.
Giving forgiveness wasn't the secret. The secret was why we needed his forgiveness. Why did God have to pay such a big price for our sin. The "secret" was that we attempted to overthrow God in heaven which is why we are on earth. It's like being bailed out of jail but not knowing why you were in jail in the 1st place. That study revealed why we were in jail to begin with.
So what biblical verse did they provide to explain all of this? This seems such a big story, I doubt the bible contains the story about it unless they "put" things that weren't there in the "holes" of the biblical verse.
For example, the bible said in this verse: "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God". Then the wmscog says, "See, the bible said that Satan tried to kill God" But if you read the verse carefully, Satan didn't TRY to kill God, it was just said that He wanted to be like God. Saying that he tried to kill God is an assumption of what happened when it wasn't exactly stated that way. This way, holes in the story can be filled and you can create your own "situation" of what happened without the bible truthfully backing it up.
Well, they use the verse where it says to lie or hate your brother is spiritual murder. Then they revert back to the study of the City of Refuge where if anyone commits murder they must be sent to the COR, etc. etc. Because heaven is a spiritual place, then the murder described in the hometown (heaven) must mean lie or hate. I don't remember any verse being used to "prove" we tried to over-throw God. I think they just said we were so full of hate and arrogance that we wanted the thrown for ourselves and tried to kill God. They didn't use kill in a spiritual sense here but in it's literal meaning.
genny wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
"it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world."
This, I remember this very well.
Then please tell me what "fulfillment of the feast of tabernacles" means.
I understood that part of it was to bring good offering/ fruits (more members) to spiritually rebuild the temple/ Jerusalem (Mother).
WMS brother wrote:
"it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world."
This, I remember this very well.
And I completely understand how people, when they are told "Mother will tell us to stop preaching at the end of the year" when we are discussing a -future- year, may be confused that it meant "next year" 2012, or "this year" 2012.
Threre is a big difference between the world is going to end and no this is the end of preaching. How are we supposed to even start to understand how the WMSCOG has the truth when what they tell their members keeps changing? How about the fact that there are so many different truths from one Zion to the next? I'm not being hateful here or misleading I just really would like to know.
In the past, ten or more years ago, it may -have- been suggested that a future date like 2012 will be the year that it happens as a part of the Tabernacles prophecy. But I can garantee you it wasn't a widespread idea, because I know too many people that never heard of it, going back to Ron's time.
For six years "2012" has not been our preophecy, and for eleven years no one remembers such a teaching, and I'm talking about close friends I knew before the church, not "brainwashed" people.
So prior to six years ago it was your prophesy. People outside of your church that have not been "brainwashed" as you put it would not remember the 2012 prophesy seeing as how they were probably never taught it. I don't understand your logic here. 2+2 does not add up to fish.
And no, before the answer to that becomes "well maybe you are being lied to", allow me to use that cop-out first. Maybe you people are being lied to here?
I'm going to bust you here. Why are you trying to mindread here? Someone looking for the truth is out to find answers and anyone trying to bring the good news should not be insulting people by telling them what they're going to come back with. Be ready with an answer; this is biblical but don't tell us what we are or are not thinking. Your preconceived notions are offensive at times.
Maybe this website is the one which has been given misleading information by people who are exagerrating. More on that below.
"then why are you saving your money,treasures etc that shows you dont belive in god"
We DO say that we should avoid hoarding material possessions, we do say that we believe in God and we should reflect that by treating God as God actually exists as a real and omnipotent presance.
Your god is not omnipresent. Your group makes it very clear that she lives in Korea and it appears that she doesn't leave there. I would hope that she would get out a little just for health reasons. An omnipresent God doesn't need to use the phone or send emails in order to speak to us.
That includes having faith in God's immenent coming.
By the points expressed in your post, it is clear to me that a lot of the sensational verses or statements we use to kind of pump people up were remembered, but I see a lack of all the things we say in between. This is a chronic problem of non-believers or from people who fell away. The Sabbath is a long day, our studies go for hours. There are a lot of things we say that the people here don't actually give us credit for.
"if mother says 2012 is the end how many of you belive"
Heres the point; she never said that.
I have invited you to speak to me via PM. We might be able to have a better understanding of each other there one on one.
renita.payno wrote:
genny wrote:
WMS brother wrote:
"it was fulfillment of the feast of tabernacle not end of the world."
This, I remember this very well.
Then please tell me what "fulfillment of the feast of tabernacles" means.
I understood that part of it was to bring good offering/ fruits (more members) to spiritually rebuild the temple/ Jerusalem (Mother).
That's how I remember it but it was never 100% clear to me
yes the Jerusalem Temple was to be completed, all the new brothers and sisters were the molded pieces that fit right in to complete the temple. ( as I was taught) The members are the material.
and mother is the ARK of the Covenant, if I remember correctly.
sounds about like what I was taught
I really feel bad posting so much, but there is so much to say:
"That's how I remember it but it was never 100% clear to me"
I don't mean to offend anyone at all by this, it is no one's fault in particular.
I just wanted to demonstrate, and reiterate, that there is a lot of information in our studies. I mean seriously it takes a couple hours just to do one. While there are 50+ lower level studies. I too had to listen to the Tabernacles study three times before I understood it.
A lot of the things people say (even long time members) can come out seeming VERY wrong and unchristianlike on our part; if the details are neglected.
Jesus said himself that the mysteries of heaven were hidden, and he absolutely told the truth, they take a little time to unwravel. In addition the scroll may -only- be opened by the Root of David, I.e. Jesus in the Flesh, I.e. in the future Jesus will be in the flesh again. I.e. if you have unwravled his mysteries than it is the very promise of God that the second coming of Jesus is the one responsible.
BECAUSE… No one else is worthy, or has been found to be worthy, to "open" the scrolls. Only Jesus is responsible for Biblical enlightenment, Jesus alone.
—
"I don't remember any verse being used to "prove" we tried to over-throw God."
Adam and Eve is a parable of the original people who were thrown out of heaven because they were tricked by the ("Dragon who is also known as the") Serpent.
But Satan still has angelic powers and still gets to fly into heaven and etc. He didn't truley get kicked out yet. Reference Job.
There is a point in time when the real fire and brimstone events stop happening, and "demon spirits" fade into obscurity, and it directly after the time of Jesus.
Concernign this, there is an explanation for the point in time when Satan fell, reference Revelations;
And there was war in heaven.
THUS
We rebelled against God's law not to "eat" of the "tree" and were banished. In whatever spiritual meaning that fulfilled, whatever it was, it wounded God deeply enough to banish us, their sons and daughters, to earth.
In addition is explicitely stated later that there was a war in Heaven during the book of Revelations, and Satan, and Satan's angels, were thrown down to the Earth.
Not hell, Satan's angels are not in hell.
The earth.
Satan's angels are on earth.
—
"An omnipresent God doesn't need to use the phone or send emails in order to speak to us."
God didn't need to send letters with his prophets, either, but that was done gazillions of times during the old testament. That IS actually how God works.
Jesus didn't need to send messengers either, but he regularly used the Apostles to go and prepare things for him.
So, sorry, but that is actually the exact pattern of how God works.
To compare: No, Jesus does not have to teleport down from the Cross just because you don't believe he can, and desire to taunt him to.
WMS BROTHER,
~PEACE~
I have a question for you, if you can be kind and answer, Was Isaac God in the Flesh?
WMS brother wrote:
But Satan still has angelic powers and still gets to fly into heaven and etc. He didn't truley get kicked out yet. Reference Job.
….
There is a point in time when the real fire and brimstone events stop happening, and "demon spirits" fade into obscurity, and it directly after the time of Jesus.
Concernign this, there is an explanation for the point in time when Satan fell, reference Revelations;
And there was war in heaven.
THUS
…..
In addition is explicitely stated later that there was a war in Heaven during the book of Revelations, and Satan, and Satan's angels, were thrown down to the Earth.
Not hell, Satan's angels are not in hell.
The earth.
Satan's angels are on earth.
You seem to be contradicting yourself is Satan cast out of Heaven yet or not?
"Was Isaac God in the Flesh?"
I remember having a study about Abraham's family, but I can't remember that particular detail. I'm leaning towards no because that seems like an important enoguh thing that I should remember it. But its possible I'm dumb and forgot. Why do you believe its important?
"is Satan cast out of Heaven yet or not?"
Satan is currently cast out of Heaven.
The timeline is as follows:
1. Adam and Eve fell from Heaven.
2. Nephelim are recorded to be on earth with our old prehistoric ancestors, implying Adam and Eve were not the only fallen angels.
3. Satan messes with Lot.
4. Jesus comes to defeat Sin and expose Satan.
5. If you believe that Jesus is God, then Satan revealed himself to God with every intention of tricking God into condemning and killing himself. Reference attempting to trick Jesus into testing God and commiting suicide.
6. Satan fails, badly. There was a war in heaven about it, that part is written in Revelations. Satan is banished.
7. Now on earth, Satan and Satan's angels set up earthly plans to destroy the truth beginning in Rome, so the Bible testifies about the rise of the Beast.
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