[oliverlog]

As wmscog says Ahnshahnhong preached for 37 years from 1948 when he was baptized in SDA(Seventh day adventist) till his death in 1985 +3 years of Jesus Christ’s preaching = 40 years reign of King David (the reason for his qualification of 2nd coming/ the root of david). I want to ask wmscog –

Q1- why then he left SDA and opened a new church?

Q1a-Was SDA doctrine wrong? If yes :Then why he got baptized in a wrong doctrine? Didn’t he know it already being 2nd christ? (Possible Answer)-May be he had no other way because no “true” church existed.

Q1b-So why he took 16 years to open a new church? (Possible Answer)-Maybe because he had to do hard work (Stone carrying as shown in wmscog videos) for a living during the day and had little time in the night to write his books (why din’t Jesus write any book?).

Q1c-So why did God put so much burden on his shoulders? (Not fair. 1st coming christ had only 1 assignment. Poor 2nd coming.)

Q2- Was SDA right? Then why open a new doctrine?

Q3-As Ahnshahnhong started a new church in 1964 and stared preaching new ways of Gospel, then he only scored 1964 to 1985 =21 years. So he comes short 16 years to be eligible for Christship. Oooops!! (Christship is a new word I discovered due to the need on the “new age”). (Possible Solution)-May be they can add sweet 16 years of ‘mother’ who must not be a mother at that age i guess and must be beautiful to qualify to be the bride of the Lamb/Ahnshahnhong/….(somebody please write here the name of Mother’s fist husband)!!

[Disturbed]

[Disturbed]

I was taught the 144,000 would be the last ones standing with Zhang. Everyone would be destroyed except the 144,000. They would be around to witness all the devastation and enter heaven alive with Zhang.

I was also taught Zhang will never die. This information was reiterated by deacons, missionaries & the pastor. So according to their teaching she can’t die to go ahead of her children. If she dies she isn’t fulfilling their own “prophecy”. Which will further prove she isn’t God. The truth is undeniable, unchanging. You can’t have it both ways.

[Sarah2013]

Great question, Genny and Disturbed. 

[144000]

The 144000 are NOT the great multitude you guys are getting confused. The 144000 perfect saints ascend into heaven alive (or are theoretically transformed, tansfigured, it hasn’t happened yet so I do’t know exactly what it will look like.

Then… After the 144000 ascend into heaven alive, the Geat multitude are ressurected from their deaths into heaven.

The 144000 and also the Great Multitude both get to go into heaven.

If any of you were members how do you not remember this? It is basic stuff.

It was taught that Mother will be with us until the end, and it was also taught that the end involved the four winds of war such as a nuclear world war.

So I can see what WMS Brother means, if a nuke takes 2 or 4 or 8 hours, however fast it can fly, or if countries survive long enough to launch nukes a day later, or if people hold out in bunkers until killed by radiation. Who knows? Maybe it will be instantaneous, maybe it will take weeks of bombing?

But if you want to achieve a mutal understanding go talk to deacons and pastors with humble repentance and they will teach you.

You aren’t going to get perfect answers out of a brother like me, and I already hate how some of my words have been used against us. So I don’t really want to share more than that.

Go to zion to learn.

[emil]

144000 wrote:

You are seriously confused if you think we keep the OT pentecost. We keep the NT pentecost for the Holy Spirit.

I do not know what you mean by the NT Pentecost because of your concept of the age of the Holy Spirit. I already explained that for us the Petecost is not the OT Pentecost but a celebration of the coming down of the Holy Spirit, which jesus promised, shortly after Jesus ascended. Now if you guys claim the HS has come down in the 20th century then I can't see it as the NT Pentecost.

I never mentioned judging or condemning people you guys asked about Christmas and so I answered, if you don't like the answers you shouldn't have asked.

Not sure if you have judged but FTOS does that all the time.

We believe in the truth that they are the Spirit and the Bride through the bible. You believe what you believe because it is aman-made festival which is not in the bible. It is the difference between Abel and Cain.

I have been able to access the entire Tertullian's On Idolatory which you alluded to a few posts ago. If you still want to push your point of Hislop's quote, which quoted Tertullain's one sentence, I can take you on with the entire chapter 14. It is revealing and rips apart your OT feasts. It also puts Tertullians quote within its proper context. But that would take this thread completely off topic.

How many times must we explain what will happen in the end? Honestly you people are so forgetful it is no wonder you are so easily decieved. But have faith in Christ who will ressurect us at the end, the spirit and the Bride say come, go to that church. +ion says "here is our God and we trusted in Him" go to that church.

No. You guys have never been clear and unambiguous. That is why you continue to deceive us. Now to be clear, mum and the 144000 will be there in the end when it is all over? Is that correct? That seems to be what WMS Brother said except that he was kind of sitting on the fence painfully.

It remains that I am satisfied with heavenly Father's 37 year ministry, and the more you try to argue it the more ridiculous everyone can see your logic; for if it were true, if you applied that same logic to Jesus, he should not have waited 3 years to give the Passover.

But The Unknown said that back on page 1, so since I'm tired of repeating for my dear brothers I'm done with this thread for now.

Can you tell me why the total had to be 40 years? What scripture tells us that?

And ah yes! the passover. What exactly do you mean Jesus gave the PO after 3 years? Are you aware of Jesus celebrating the PO at anytime before that too? Did Jesus say celebrate the PO in memory of me? Or did he say to replicate the giving of his body and blood. Would you care to discuss this in a thread about the PO? Wouldn't like to take this one off topic.

[Disturbed]

Excuse me 144,000…I did not say the 144,000 & the great multitude were the same…get your facts straight. I said everyone EXCEPT the 144,000 would be destroyed.

[Disturbed]

And thank you for the offer, but I have learned all I care to learn in Zion. I pray for your sake you will use logic & reasoning to think things through.

[emil]

@144000 – Thank you for a very candid reply. I think now I am clear. You are the first one I have heard unambiguously declaring that mother will be there till the end. Since the 144000 will go to heaven without tasting physical death, I presume that will be true for mother too, right?

Thank you once again. I like you brother. I think you are a genuinely good person.

[Love'n Honey]

144000 wrote:

The 144000 are NOT the great multitude you guys are getting confused. The 144000 perfect saints ascend into heaven alive (or are theoretically transformed, tansfigured, it hasn't happened yet so I do't know exactly what it will look like.

Then… After the 144000 ascend into heaven alive, the Geat multitude are ressurected from their deaths into heaven.

 

Disturbed wrote:

Everyone would be destroyed except the 144,000.

 It is you who is confused.. Read slower and out loud. If you don't know what a word is type it in google or pray to Ash and see what he tells you.

[Love'n Honey]

144000 wrote:

 

You aren't going to get perfect answers out of a brother like me, and I already hate how some of my words have been used against us. So I don't really want to share more than that.

Go to zion to learn.

 You're a guy?! What is it with me thinking the guys here are girls.. I'm sorry for calling you a girl. =)

[genny]

144000 wrote:

The 144000 are NOT the great multitude you guys are getting confused. The 144000 perfect saints ascend into heaven alive (or are theoretically transformed, tansfigured, it hasn't happened yet so I do't know exactly what it will look like.

Then… After the 144000 ascend into heaven alive, the Geat multitude are ressurected from their deaths into heaven.

The 144000 and also the Great Multitude both get to go into heaven.

If any of you were members how do you not remember this? It is basic stuff.

It was taught that Mother will be with us until the end, and it was also taught that the end involved the four winds of war such as a nuclear world war.

So I can see what WMS Brother means, if a nuke takes 2 or 4 or 8 hours, however fast it can fly, or if countries survive long enough to launch nukes a day later, or if people hold out in bunkers until killed by radiation. Who knows? Maybe it will be instantaneous, maybe it will take weeks of bombing?

But if you want to achieve a mutal understanding go talk to deacons and pastors with humble repentance and they will teach you.

You aren't going to get perfect answers out of a brother like me, and I already hate how some of my words have been used against us. So I don't really want to share more than that.

Go to zion to learn.

I already understand your difference between the 144000 and the great multitude.  But I think you are mistaken here.  If the resurrection of the great multitude happens after the 144000 are taken to heaven, how do you explain 1 Thess. 4:15-17?

15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

I just want to check that I understand what you are saying.  Please tell me if this is what you believe:

First the great multitude die in the last disaster(s), along with everyone else on earth, but 'mother' and the 144000 are still alive.

Then the 144000 and 'mother' ascend alive to heaven.

Is that right?

[Smurf]

144000 wrote:

 

Then… After the 144000 ascend into heaven alive, the Geat multitude are ressurected from their deaths into heaven.

As the WMS likes to say: "The Bible is clear on this!"

1 Thess. 4:15  According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.

I think 144000 made an oopsie 😛 he must be feeling pretty silly about now

 

[emil]

144000 wrote:

Who knows at exactly which point Christ becomes Christ? Maybe one of the Pastors who walked with Father and preached with Father know, ask them. Probably from birth but I think I see where you are going with this: and it was prophesied to happen that way.

Could you explain that? I am confused. You say "Probably from birth…" indicating some room for doubt as to the correct facts. Then you say, "it was prophesied to happen that way." Seems to me that if you understand the prophecy, there should be absolutely no room for doubt. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[The Unknown]

Storm wrote:

ATTENTION THE UNKNOWN

 

The Unknown said on page 2 of this thread

 

The Unknown

First of all, Do any of you know how to study the bible? If you insist Christ Ahnsahnghong didn't preach 37 years, so "the math doesn't add up" or he didn't fulfill the "Prophecy of King David's throne" then you must also insist that Jesus, whom you claim to believe in, is a false christ because it is written that Jesus had to be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. (Matthew ) however, was Jesus in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights? No he wasn't. According to the Bible's explanation, Jesus wasn't in the grave for 72 hours(3 days and 3 nights) he was in the grave for a total of 36 hours. Do the math. So according to "the math" Jesus was a false Christ because he wasn't in the grave for 72 hours, 3 days and 3 nights. I would love to hear anyone's explanation of how this is incorrect. But no one will because you're all in error because you don't the scripture. So moving along…

It is clear that they finished right before the Sabbath Day was about to begin, which is sunrise. So If Jesus was put in the ground at 6pm, then, 6pm Friday night until Dawn, 6pm, Sunday morning is only 36 hours. This is assuming that he was put in the ground exactly at 6pm on Friday night however, looking at the facts of his burial, there is no way he was put in the ground at 6pm on friday night because, His body wasn't even taken off the cross until evening, which at the earliest could have been 6pm.

I would love to hear you prove this wrong. But you can't because you can't deny any of this. So the according to your insistance, the Jesus, you claim to believe in, is a false christ, because he wasn't in the grave 3 days and 3 night, totaling 72 hours.

　

　

Storm Unknown you are in error, Jesus did not die on a Friday, with that being said your whole statement goes out the window. Here we go….

(long post see page 2)

The Unknown LOL, Storm, you couldn't be more wrong. Day doesn't begin on when the sun goes down. You sound like an SDA. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3 says God said Let their be light…. God called the light day. The very first thing God created was Light(sunlight) and he called it day. Then God worked duing the day, then evening came then morning came.

Storm

UNKNOWN, Your question was the following:

was Jesus in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights? No he wasn't. According to the

Bible's explanation, Jesus wasn't in the grave for 72 hours(3 days and 3 nights) he was in the grave for a total of 36 hours. Do the math. So according to "the math" Jesus was a false Christ because he wasn't in the grave for 72 hours, 3 days and 3 nights. I would love to hear anyone's explanation of how this is incorrect. But no one will because you're all in error because you don't the scripture. So moving along…

So why are you debating day & night with me? I clearly gave you the explanation to your question and you turn it around into another topic

We were not discussing day & night can you please stick to the topic

that was not the original question! Come on move it along……(whistling)

 

The Unknown What’s your point please explain. Please finish the conversation you started. Show me why you say I’m wrong with the explanation I gave you on page 2. REGARDING how many days Jesus was in the tomb.

Genesis 1

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was

good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the

darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first

Day.

8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

　

　

　

　

 

WOW STORM,

Even you shocked me w/this one!!! LOL, How are you going to copy my post in bits and pieces??? Below is the part of my answer that you copied and pasted.

 

The Unknown LOL, Storm, you couldn't be more wrong. Day doesn't begin on when the sun goes down. You sound like an SDA. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3 says God said Let their be light…. God called the light day. The very first thing God created was Light(sunlight) and he called it day. Then God worked duing the day, then evening came then morning came.

 

I gave you a clear explanation on the 2nd page of this forum which you copied from, however you only copied the top part of it to make it seem like I didnt answer the question. Thats cool though.  Read page 2 of this thread. You will see your answer. If you read all the comments posted by the UNKNOWN, you will see all the answers I gave for the 3days and 3 nights of Jesus being in the Grave and why I gave that explanation and why that topic was brought up in the 1st place and you will see the answers i gave to the questions and accusations that were brought to my attention on this sight. I truly hope you all repent before it is too late. I'd rather have to deal with man now, than to have to deal with God on the last day.  God bless you.

 

 

 

 

 

[emil]

The Unknown wrote:

warrior wrote:

Hi The Unknown, that depends which book of the bible you read. According to John, Jesus was crucified on the passover day (which would mean he never actually kept it..) 

John 19:14 – It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews. 15 But they shouted, “Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!” “Shall I crucify your king?” Pilate asked. “We have no king but Caesar,” the chief priests answered.16 Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified.

So which verse do you accept? Matthew (jesus keeping the passover and being crucified on friday) or John (jesus being crucified on the passover and not keeping it)

Hello Warrior, I will kindly point out your error and the fact that you don't truly know or understand the scriptures.

Both verses are correct. Especially the book of John, was written by Apostle John who had great understanding. You quoted John 19:14-16 however this is not a testimony that Jesus was crucified on the Passover day(meaning the 14th day of the 1st month at twilight) If you insist that, you clearly testify that you don't know the scriptures. First of all there was no new testament written in the time when Jesus was on the earth, so you must understand the Passover according to the Old Testament, because that was the Passover the Jews and Chief priest wanted to be able to keep. So what is written in Ezekiel 45:21:.. the Passover a feast lasting 7 days…

The Passover was called a feast lasting 7 days. So that was what the people of Isreal called it. Anytime within that "7day period" at that time of year was known as "Passover". John;s testimony is no different than the other Apostles. You just have to have good knowledge and understanding of the Bible to understand his testimony. Scripture can not contradict Scripture in any way, shape or form. If it did, then the bible wouldnt be true. If you testify that John's testimony contradicts the other Apostles or that any of their testimony isn't valid, then you testify that the bible, which is the Word of God is not flawless, which would defeat the purpose of believing in God.  Also to further confirm that Jesus ate the Passover on the 14th day of the 1st month, according to the appointed time in the bible, is as follows

Mark 14:12 it is written… when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus sent disciples to make preparations to keep the passover

Luke 22:7-8 Then came the day of Unleavened Bread, on which the Passover Lamb had to be sacrificed . Jesus sent Peter and JOHN, saying, go, and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.

Luke 22:14-15 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. And he said to them, "I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer".

Matthew 26:17-19 also confirms this fact. The same testimony was given by 3 different witnesses. So what did Jesus say in John 8:17: In your law it is written that the testimony of 2 witnesses is true 

However this testimony that Jesus and the disciples kept the Passover is recorded by 3 witnesses. 

sorry you are greatly mistaken.

Warrior is correct and you are making some strong assertions here.

1. The Passover is just one day. It is the first day of the 7 day festival of the unleavened bread. Any Jew will tell you that. These were originally two separate festivals which were joined later. The sacrificial lamb was slaughtered before the start of Passover.

2. If as you have admitted elsewhere, Jesus is the passover lamb, it is obvious that the Passover had not started when he was killed. It would start at dusk that evening.

3. You also imply that the synoptic gospel account is of 3 witnesses and so to be relied on more than John. But you are wrong to make that claim. The 3 writers of the synoptic gospels were not eyewitnesses. Matthew is the only one of them who may be counted as a witness.

4. By that account, John was much closer to Jesus not only at the last supper but at many other events. In case of discrepancy, I would give greater weightage for John's witness.

5. It is common knowledge among bible historians that the 3 synoptic gospels borrow from each other. The most widely held belief is that Mark's gospel was the first to be written and both Matthew and Luke borrowed heavily from it. Since Mark was not a eye witness, it gives even more weightage for John's gospel.

[Storm]

@the unknown, hey God bless you too! you know you need to stop accusing people of doing things without first asking.  Yes I copy and paste because the conversation was long and the thread quickly went to page 8.  If you read again you will notice that i said see page 2 (too long to post.)

I did not intentionally leave out information you wrote to make it seem as if you did not answer me. I was just doing a recap of our conversation to make it short and sweet.  The post in this thread are extremely long and the one you left for me is a mess.  Too much going on this thread.  Sorry you felt that way.

As far as me repenting, I have done nothing wrong, but ask questions. Only God knows what's in my heart and my true intentions brother, so please don't judge me because you will be judge in the same matter.

We are all sinners seeking for the truth!

 

WOW STORM,

Even you shocked me w/this one!!! LOL, How are you going to copy my post in bits and pieces??? Below is the part of my answer that you copied and pasted.

 

The Unknown LOL, Storm, you couldn't be more wrong. Day doesn't begin on when the sun goes down. You sound like an SDA. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3 says God said Let their be light…. God called the light day. The very first thing God created was Light(sunlight) and he called it day. Then God worked duing the day, then evening came then morning came.

 

I gave you a clear explanation on the 2nd page of this forum which you copied from, however you only copied the top part of it to make it seem like I didnt answer the question. Thats cool though.  Read page 2 of this thread. You will see your answer. If you read all the comments posted by the UNKNOWN, you will see all the answers I gave for the 3days and 3 nights of Jesus being in the Grave and why I gave that explanation and why that topic was brought up in the 1st place and you will see the answers i gave to the questions and accusations that were brought to my attention on this sight. I truly hope you all repent before it is too late. I'd rather have to deal with man now, than to have to deal with God on the last day.  God bless you. 

 

[Love'n Honey]

Matt 26:16 Judas waits for the opportunity to hand over Jesus

John 13:1 Just before the PO

Matt 26:20;John 13:30 Evening on the day of the PO

Matt 26:43 The disciples kept falling asleep because it was late

Matt 26:50; John 18:12 Jesus is arrested

Matt 26:74; John 18:27 The rooster crows.. it's morning the next day but Jesus hasn't been crux yet.

Matt 27:1 "Early in the morning.."

John 19:14 Um…. the day of preperation for the PO.. noon……..

Matt 27:26;John 19:16 Jesus was handed over to be crux

Matt 27:45 it became dark

Matt 27:50;John 19:30 Jesus died

Matt 27:62;John 19:31 The day after Preperation Day is the Sabbath

Matt 28:1;John 20:1 Jesus resurrects on Sunday

 

Somebody explain to me why this bible is contradicting itself?

[Love'n Honey]

Well, I just pissed someone off… lol

[fromtheotherside]

Storm wrote:

ATTENTION THE UNKNOWN

 

The Unknown said on page 2 of this thread

 

The Unknown

First of all, Do any of you know how to study the bible? If you insist Christ Ahnsahnghong didn't preach 37 years, so "the math doesn't add up" or he didn't fulfill the "Prophecy of King David's throne" then you must also insist that Jesus, whom you claim to believe in, is a false christ because it is written that Jesus had to be in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights. (Matthew ) however, was Jesus in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights? No he wasn't. According to the Bible's explanation, Jesus wasn't in the grave for 72 hours(3 days and 3 nights) he was in the grave for a total of 36 hours. Do the math. So according to "the math" Jesus was a false Christ because he wasn't in the grave for 72 hours, 3 days and 3 nights. I would love to hear anyone's explanation of how this is incorrect. But no one will because you're all in error because you don't the scripture. So moving along…

It is clear that they finished right before the Sabbath Day was about to begin, which is sunrise. So If Jesus was put in the ground at 6pm, then, 6pm Friday night until Dawn, 6pm, Sunday morning is only 36 hours. This is assuming that he was put in the ground exactly at 6pm on Friday night however, looking at the facts of his burial, there is no way he was put in the ground at 6pm on friday night because, His body wasn't even taken off the cross until evening, which at the earliest could have been 6pm.

I would love to hear you prove this wrong. But you can't because you can't deny any of this. So the according to your insistance, the Jesus, you claim to believe in, is a false christ, because he wasn't in the grave 3 days and 3 night, totaling 72 hours.

　

　

Storm Unknown you are in error, Jesus did not die on a Friday, with that being said your whole statement goes out the window. Here we go….

(long post see page 2)

The Unknown LOL, Storm, you couldn't be more wrong. Day doesn't begin on when the sun goes down. You sound like an SDA. Genesis chapter 1 verse 3 says God said Let their be light…. God called the light day. The very first thing God created was Light(sunlight) and he called it day. Then God worked duing the day, then evening came then morning came.

Storm

UNKNOWN, Your question was the following:

was Jesus in the grave for 3 days and 3 nights? No he wasn't. According to the

Bible's explanation, Jesus wasn't in the grave for 72 hours(3 days and 3 nights) he was in the grave for a total of 36 hours. Do the math. So according to "the math" Jesus was a false Christ because he wasn't in the grave for 72 hours, 3 days and 3 nights. I would love to hear anyone's explanation of how this is incorrect. But no one will because you're all in error because you don't the scripture. So moving along…

So why are you debating day & night with me? I clearly gave you the explanation to your question and you turn it around into another topic

We were not discussing day & night can you please stick to the topic

that was not the original question! Come on move it along……(whistling)

 

The Unknown What’s your point please explain. Please finish the conversation you started. Show me why you say I’m wrong with the explanation I gave you on page 2. REGARDING how many days Jesus was in the tomb.

Genesis 1

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was

good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the

darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first

Day.

8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

　

　

　

　

Your day starts in the evening theory has been debunked by many even before this conversation began, also if you say Jesus wasn't crucified on Fri then that means sunday is not resurection day which alot of Christians will disagree with.  

[fromtheotherside]

genny wrote:

144000 wrote:

While the harvest festival you are criticizing regards food, of which, food is never unclean. No WMSCOG members prepared such food in front of idols or in prayer to idols. You seem to enjoy that picture of a family bowing down to their wall of ancestors, but such a thing we did not do no matter how hard you want to project it. So now it should be abundantly clear that the food is clean, but the Pagan Rituals of physical Christmas idols (holly, wreaths, yule trees) are heresy.

So if I celebrated the birth of Jesus at Christmas without any trees, holly, wreaths, presents, Santa Claus, red and green decorations, etc., but just a special meal, would you still accuse me of paganism?

144000 wrote:

 

How many times must we explain what will happen in the end? Honestly you people are so forgetful it is no wonder you are so easily decieved. But have faith in Christ who will ressurect us at the end, the spirit and the Bride say come, go to that church. +ion says "here is our God and we trusted in Him" go to that church.

 I think this was in response to the question about whether or not Zahng would die.  I have not seen a member explain that here at all.  If I've missed it, please, direct me to where the explanation was given.  If it has been explained so many times, as you say, it shouldn't be too hard for you to point me to it.  I would appreciate it.

Genny why not just, not celebrate it all together?  If there is even a hint of paganism and idolatry, wouldn't you want to please God.  I remember you said you were so to the letter about Lying.  You wouldn't even lie to protect someone because you felt it was wrong.   But actually God hates Idolatry just as much.  God is disgusted by it.  Then why don't you have that type of feelings about Christmas, there is idolatry and paganry in it and you know it.  But you don't want to stop and you convince yourself it's okay because the real underlining reason behind it is "you".  You want to keep it for yourself.  

[Love'n Honey]

fromtheotherside wrote:

Genny why not just, not celebrate it all together?  If there is even a hint of paganism and idolatry, wouldn't you want to please God.

 Because it's not wrong to celebrate something that doesn't include worshipping a false god. Choosing a day that most other people choose to reflect on why Jesus came to this earth isn't bad. Y'all do it with Ash's "coming day" even though it's not a Feast. Decorating a tree, 1st of all, isn't pagan because no one is worshipping the tree. But even if there is no tree involved, being with family and thanking Jesus for His coming isn't pagan either as you have explained. The sun god is not involved at all during this celebration [in my life].

What's so wrong with taking a terrible idea and turning it into something good? Take slaves for example. They were beaten and forced to do chores around the house. Now, people are paid to do chores around the house.. just not beaten or forced anymore. Something terrible [slavery] was turned into something good [jobs]. I used to think that because black people were slaves it was ridiculous for any black person to clean anyone's mess except their own. I focused on the origin.. slavery.. but didn't accept [until recently] that it wasn't slavery anymore but something completely different.

Christmas isn't Saturnalia. No one's worshipping the sun or saturn or trees or whatever. It's completely different.