Does Cloud Mean Flesh?

The World Mission Society Church of God (WMSCOG) teaches that Daniel, in Chapter 7:13-14, testifies to the first coming of Christ on the clouds. They teach this in their sermons as quoted on their web site:

“Jesus did not come on the visible clouds of heaven. Instead, he was born a baby through the body of Mary. Some argue that the above prophecy in concerning Jesus’ second coming. Daniel’s prophecy is speaking of Jesus’ first coming, undoubtedly because the prophecy states, He was given authority, glory and sovereign power [a kingdom, KJV]; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him.” Matthew and Luke disclosed that, in His first coming, Jesus had been given all authority, in heaven and on earth, as well as a kingdom” – © WMSCOG English WATV.org – Accessed on 03.25.2011.

Daniel 7:13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”

When the scriptures are examined a little further it is clear that Daniel is actually describing the same vision John sees in Revelation, and not actually the virgin birth of Christ.  Note the order of the beasts:

Daniel 7:4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it. 5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’ 6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.

Daniel mentioned beasts that resembled a lion, a bear, and a leopard. These same beasts can be found in reverse order in the book of Revelation (which is not about Christ’s birth in the flesh)

Revelation 13:2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority.

As you can see from the WMSCOG sermon quote above, they also argue that verses in Matthew and Luke prove that Jesus had been given authority on earth and in heaven at the time of his first coming. However, again we see that this is part of the same vision referenced in the book of Revelation:

Revelation 5:9 …persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.  10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Further proof that Daniel’s vision references the end times, can be demonstrated in Daniel 7:9-10.

Daniel 7:9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat. His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool. His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze. 10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him. Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him. The court was seated, and the books were opened.

Daniel is clearly referencing the time of judgement during this part of his vision. Parallels to the above verses in the book of Daniel are also found in the book of Revelation.

Revelation 20:4 I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge.
Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

In conclusion, the appearance of the beasts and subsequent judgement by the Lord, is prophesied in the Bible to occur after Christ’s Resurrection, and in the last days.  Did judgement occur when Jesus was on the earth?  No. Were the beasts thrown in to the lake of fire when Jesus was on the earth? No. Therefore, Daniel’s vision of the Son of Man coming in the clouds is a direct reference to those described in Revelation and not his virgin birth.

 

*The photo above is licensed under the Creative Commons license, available here.

4 Comments

  • Actually you are dead wrong. Daniel vision cannot be the end times. The four kingdoms babylon persia greece and rome were world powers in written history not in the twentieth century. it was revealed to daniel the eleventh horn who receives power from satan the ruler of this sinful world which is the beast/prostitute that is to be exposed in these last days through the revelation of jesus through apostle john. The book of revelation is directly related to the last century. As far as clouds go, read jude it describes false prophets as clouds without rain, so in turn true prophets are clouds with rain, meaning people who carry the true gospel the good news of salvation the passover. But satan has blinded you with sin that you cannot see the glory of the christ who is our savior that is our Heavenly Mother Jerusalem. Please don’t disrespect my heavenly family again. Revelations also reveals who will win in the end, our mother commander and chief of the heavens army who is on this earth until father comes on fire the very end which is written in the last chapter in isaiah.

    • Hello Tia and thank you for commenting,
      First, you mentioned that “Daniel vision cannot be the end times”. I think that you may be confusing the dream that Daniel interpreted for King Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:31-45) with the vision that Daniel had in Chapter 7. They are not the same. I suggest that you read the book of Daniel in its entirety. Yet you seem to ignore the parallels between the beasts in Daniel’s vision (Daniel Chapter 7) and the beasts in Revelation (as explained in the article). Your reference to Jude 1:12 demonstrates little or no knowledge of figurative language and does not provide a significant rebuttal to the argument being made. Please explain the process by which you arrived at the conclusion that you have the ability to judge who, as you say, “satan has blinded” with sin. The administrators on this site aim to seek the truth and present it to all that are interested in reading. The amount of content on this site, and others, in opposition to your organization’s methods and doctrine, leaves the answer to “who will win in the end” largely debatable.

      • As a member. I apologize for the condemnation that pours onto this slanderous website from our members. The bible says the bible is perfect. Which suggests that its not open for interpretation. Our members believe that. I feel better off believing an interpretation that doesn’t contradict itself. I have not been to a church that interprets the present times as accurately as this church. I would say this website is just as debatable as church of Gods doctrine. Except the lesson from the fig tree. I don’t think Ahnsahnghong could have just came up with that and coincidentally had the exact year of birth to fulfill it. Most of what he teaches is extremely logical and answers many questions. Most peoples doubts are turned into proofs as they are written in the bible. If we learn from what happened with Jesus we can recognize Ahnsahnghong much better. I don’t want to prove anyone wrong. I just want people to know Gods love.

  • I like you attitude Kevin. You seem understanding. You are a member and you are able to talk to us. Members and ex-members are not perfect when commenting on this site. Some have gone to the extreme. I understand if you believe the teachings from the korean zion’s, you’ll also go out and defend it. If we can continue to talk that is great.

    I have a question for you, are the leaders of your church looking to make peace between all of us ex-members and them?