"do not generalize"

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  • #7154
    admin
    Participant

    This comment was originally posted in response to "The Church That Celebrates the Birth of Christ is Heretic"–Chief Pastor Joo Cheol Kim on 2/27/13.

    fromphil says:

    i guess i'll be looking at this website from time to time. i learn a lot from here. by reading others opinions/facts. i'm a member of the church of God. New Member, so it was really quite a shock that there's something like this. one thing, i knew in here, aside from of course, debate, people who don't like or against (i don't know what appropriate word i should use) the Church of God, is they generalize people. there is something we call statistics. if you have talked to more than 100,000 people who came from the church of God, 1000 ex-members, does it mean that all the people in the church of God which is approximately 1.5M are manipulating their lives? ruining their relationship between their families? alienating themselves to their friends? i, for, one, have encountered some of them, but people are millions and with that millions, there are also millions of individualities and personalities. the preaching is voluntarily and i preach sometimes. they tell me to go but God doesn't want an unwilling heart so i don't go if it's not worship day. some of them, were really coming over to our boarding house to ask me to come, why? they were just concerned about my spiritual life, and i understand that. regarding the ten talents, i haven't heard about it just here, so i thought people have encountered some of those. and i was shocked to read, that some of the people here have talked to those former members of the Church of God, that they were kicked out from the church for some reasons. so please, you may say "some members" but not the whole church. do not generalize. if you haven't encountered even a single good thing throughout your life, would you blame your whole life? of course not, there's always good thing waiting. sometimes stories can be added  and subtracted, and that's from both side.

  • #54947

    Liberty
    Participant

    Well the census I get is that most of the people here are ex-members of the Church of the God. Yes, its true that we all have different personalities and experiences. However, many of the things said in this forum are true for the majority of the members. Since you are new, they haven't fully indoctrinated you yet. By my experience, preaching was definitely not voluntary. Nor was attendance if you wanted to stay a part of that organization. They get harder and harder on you the longer you've been there.

    #54948

    Love'n Honey
    Participant

    Yea, after a while, you're expected to want to go preaching everyday and attend every service and come very early to prepare for service and stay late to clean up afterwards. When I was in the choir, I was expected to clean the choir room or watch the kids every day we had practice and for service. Of course those duties were rotated but if you didn't do it, you didn't sing which meant a lot to me at the time.

    #54949

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    Both of you are doing exactly what he is talking about, generalizing.  Your talking from your own experience, which is one out 1,000,000 which means you are generalizing.

    #54950

    Love'n Honey
    Participant

    In some cases, generalizing is ok because generally it's true. Being a navy veteran, I have met many Brothers and Sisters who have shared the same story of being expected to want to be in Zion when they are working, in school, or tending to household duties. Unfortunately, not all 1,000,000 members are posting here and you would just have to take my word for it which some probably won't. But, I believe, that if a survey were taken and the members answered without bias, most would say the WMSCOG stressed preaching whether it were to non-believers, new comers, or just practice.

    Just like generally, women are compassionate to their children. I'm not as compassionate as most people expect me to be because of this generalization if that's a word. Personally it might not be true, but generally it is. And we don't need all the billions of mothers to take a survey to know this.

    #54951

    emil
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    Both of you are doing exactly what he is talking about, generalizing.  Your talking from your own experience, which is one out 1,000,000 which means you are generalizing.

    Sorry I don't agree. They are talking about their own experiences. That is exactly the opposite of generalizing.

    #54952

    fedupmom
    Participant

    Ftos, I do believe this is common practice, as opposed to generalizing, many have attested to this here, and I do feel the longer you are with the group the more one would feel this pressure. Not trying to get you upset, but are you truly being honest with yourself denying this???

    #54953

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    never felt pressure to do anything.  I was made group leader after a couple months, they never came to my house when I took a one week break and not go to meetings, they asked how were you, and I said great got alot of rest, they say that's good.  and life goes on.  no presure.  if they felt it they should stress that it was their experience at that one zion.  not generalizing it. 

    #54954

    fedupmom
    Participant

    So were you just there a couple months when you took a week break? May I ask why you took a break, and did you tell them ahead of time that you were going to take a break?

    #54955

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    I had a girlfriend and we went on a trip to vietnam.  and no I didn't tell them ahead of time. 

    #54956

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    I come and go as I please, and I do the same with the members in my group.  Of course if I ask them can yo come tonight and meet me for dinner then they tell me great or no I'm busy.  but they come they come they don't they don't.  They aren't children they have company meeting family adults are busy.

    #54957

    fedupmom
    Participant

    Just curious, if you were away, how do you know they didn’t come to your house?

    #54958

    fromtheotherside
    Participant

    they had my phone number easy way of contact. coming to my house iirrelevant. still no presure

    #54959

    Love'n Honey
    Participant

    fromtheotherside wrote:

    never felt pressure to do anything.  I was made group leader after a couple months, they never came to my house when I took a one week break and not go to meetings, they asked how were you, and I said great got alot of rest, they say that's good.  and life goes on.  no presure.  if they felt it they should stress that it was their experience at that one zion.  not generalizing it. 

     It doesn't have to be stressed. It only needs to be said. And I said it.

    #54960

    MountainMom
    Participant

    FTOS, my relative wasn't pressured at first.  He didn't go on Tuesdays for quite a while, either.  It comes gradually.  They work on you a little at a time, in fact, that was the main recruiter's mantra:  a little at a time, a little at a time.  My relative just started going more and more, then came the constant preaching, looking at video's, listening to all the music, staying at church more and more, etc.  Also we saw the pressuring to "wear a suit like me" that the pastor was doing.  We heard him pressuring our relative to do this.  I had told this relative he would wind up having to wear suits.  I told him that 6 months before they finally got him to do it.  By the way, he had promised me he wouldn't do that. I trusted he wouldn't do it if he promised he wouldn't, that is always how it was before.   He didn't know he would "have to" I guess.  Anyway, he broke his word.   He didn't have to tell them or ask permission to go places for quite a while either.  It was a matter of a year and a half or so before he had to do that.  It is all gradual, but the time comes for everything we are saying here. He wasn't made to feel he had to give a lot of money at first either.  But now, they have taken more than he can afford.  He has no savinigs, no retirement, no cushion for emergencies, nothing.  He has no control over his finances, they have all the control there. Really, his pastor has all the control when it comes down to it.  And there is no transparency in their operations.  All very secretive.

    My relative's grandma is getting old.  He has already said he can't go into the church for her funeral.  Well, that means none of us can rely on him to be there for us, even in the most dire circumstances.  He loves his grandma.  It will be very traumatic for him if he isn't there, when he looks back on it and realizes all he has missed and can never recover.  There are things that cannot be undone, and I worry about how he is going to cope in the long run.  He does not yet know the scope of what he has already lost, and for nothing.

    #54961

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Oh, and in keeping with the topic, not generalizing, I have talked to many others who have had this same experience, and I have read of others whose experiences happened just like this.  Names changed, that is all.  The churches really are very similar, especially with the main methods of operation.

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