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This thread was originally posted on Does ZhangGilJah Represent The Heifer In Numbers 19? and has been moved here for further discussion:
Renita says:
Serious question: As I understand, Jesus fulfilled the male sacrifices. But We understand that Jesus had to die because the male sacrifices consisted of killing the male animals. As I was taught, the heifer can only be fulfilled through the female Christ. According to the logic, "the animal died, so the Christ must die" the female Christ must also die. However, I was taught that Father was the example of the resurrection & Mother will be the example of transfiguration. In order to resurrect, you must die. According to the animal sacrificing logic, the female Christ must die. But she won’t because she will be the example of transfiguration. Those who are transformed will not die. How, then, is the Mother of the WMSCOG fulfilling the sacrifice of the heifer if She is not supposed to die?
admin says:
Renita,
Thank you for commenting but it is obvious that you didn’t take the time to actually read the article. Hebrews 9:13-14 clearly states the following: 13 The blood of goats and bulls [male cow] and the ashes of a heifer [female cow] sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14 How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! So Jesus fulfilled ALL of the animal sacrifices. Therefore, the gender of the animal was not relevant.
Renita says:
If the gender didn’t matter, why were all the animal sacrifices male except that one female? Does the bible explain why a female lamb could not be used for the Passover?
admin says:
Renita,
Yes a male lamb was required for the Passover but not for all animal sacrifices. See Leviticus 3:1: When his offering is a sacrifice of a peace offering, if he offers it of the herd, whether male or female, he shall offer it without blemish before the LORD. Leviticus 1:14 does not specify whether the turtledoves or pigeons were male or female either. 1 Kings 8:63 talks about Solomon sacrificing 22,000 bulls and 120,000 sheep. Do you think that all of the sheep were male? If they had been male, they would have been referred to as rams (male sheep) like in other verses such as in Leviticus 8:21, 9:4, Psalm 66:15, etc. But still you miss the point…Jesus’ sacrifice was greater than all of these regardless of gender. Therefore, there is no need for another sacrifice.
Renita says:
The WMSCOG teaches shadow & reality. I’m asking questions about the shadow, not the reality. So, please, stop saying I’m missing the point. What I now see is that the shadow doesn’t specify whether the sacrifices were male or female. Therefore, the reality shouldn’t matter if Christ were male or female. Just as long as Christ was sacrificed. The Christ who was sacrificed was Jesus who fulfills all sacrifices, whether male or female, as A. Paul explained. But now I am confused about another point the COG makes. Perhaps you can explain to me this is wrong. The COG told me that God the Father & God the Mother are 1. That Adam & Eve represent them respectively. That Eve always existed inside Adam but was made apart from Adam later. Could it be that Jesus fulfilled both gender sacrifices because He is God? According to how I was taught about Eve being God the Mother & that she always existed inside Adam (God the Father) & Jesus is God the Father, it makes sense that He fulfilled the sacrifices. Because Mother was there. Father & Mother are 1 like Adam & Eve were (& other married people Eph 5:31). I don’t know.. I’m going to ask them about that. They didn’t tell me this concerning Jesus fulfilled the sacrifices because Mother was there. I just thought about it right now.
Jesus Christ is God the Son.
Jesus Christ is God the Son.
So, I asked a Brother about the last part. Mother being present when Jesus was crux. He said he hadn't heard anything about that & isn't sure if it's "safe" to say Mother was crux. on the cross.
So, I asked a Brother about the last part. Mother being present when Jesus was crux. He said he hadn't heard anything about that & isn't sure if it's "safe" to say Mother was crux. on the cross.
Heck, I though Zhang Gil Jah WAS a Heifer!
Why does 'mother' need to be sacrificed at all, when Hebrews 10:14 says that only one sacrifice was necessary for our sins?
"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy."
Its reference to sacrifice in a different way
shimon wrote:
Its reference to sacrifice in a different way
Explain please. What different way?
Don't you sacrifice for your children (assuming you have any)
It isn't being put on a cross for the sins of humanity but it still is sacrifice.
The wms says that she has given her body and blood as the Passover Lamb, that she is sacrificed as a sin offering, that she is pierced for transgressions and wounded to bring healing.
Hebrews 10:14 says that only one sacrifice (for sins) is needed.
and Hebrews 10:18 "And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary."
The word for sacrifice also means offering, it does not need to be bloody.
The wms wasn't talking about her simply giving up her comfort to care for her children, they were talking about her sacrifice so that sin can be forgiven.
As far as I understand it, Father & Mother are 1 God which is why it made sense to me that Mother was crux. with Jesus which is why she has given her flesh & blood just like Jesus did. But apparently that's not what the COG teaches.
Also, I don't think Jesus' sacrifice could be labeled as suicide. He didn't kill Himself as we have spoken about in a different thread.
renita.payno wrote:
As far as I understand it, Father & Mother are 1 God which is why it made sense to me that Mother was crux. with Jesus which is why she has given her flesh & blood just like Jesus did. But apparently that's not what the COG teaches.
Also, I don't think Jesus' sacrifice could be labeled as suicide. He didn't kill Himself as we have spoken about in a different thread.
They are 2 gods. That's the whole thing that the wms teaches with 'Elohim' meaning plural gods. They are not 1 god but 2.
loocpoc wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
As far as I understand it, Father & Mother are 1 God which is why it made sense to me that Mother was crux. with Jesus which is why she has given her flesh & blood just like Jesus did. But apparently that's not what the COG teaches.
Also, I don't think Jesus' sacrifice could be labeled as suicide. He didn't kill Himself as we have spoken about in a different thread.
Leviticus Chapter 19
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumbling-block before the blind, but thou shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
Jesus's death by attoning for sin is considered a suicide. He went on his own free will (rather than fight when the soliders went with Judas) and allowed himself to die. He allowed the stumbling block of sin to allow himself to be killed.
13The Lord Almighty is the one you are to regard as holy,
he is the one you are to fear,
he is the one you are to dread,
14and he will be a sanctuary;
but for both houses of Israel he will be
a stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.
And for the people of Jerusalem he will be
a trap and a snare.
15Many of them will stumble;
they will fall and be broken,
they will be snared and captured.”
genny wrote:
renita.payno wrote:
As far as I understand it, Father & Mother are 1 God which is why it made sense to me that Mother was crux. with Jesus which is why she has given her flesh & blood just like Jesus did. But apparently that's not what the COG teaches.
Also, I don't think Jesus' sacrifice could be labeled as suicide. He didn't kill Himself as we have spoken about in a different thread.
They are 2 gods. That's the whole thing that the wms teaches with 'Elohim' meaning plural gods. They are not 1 god but 2.
A Missionary said, "Imagine an egg. Just one. What happens when you boil it & open it? Is it 1 egg? With how many parts? This is Elohim."
Renita, that is an example used to help describe the Trinity. The egg has a white, a yolk, and a shell–3 parts.
The wms clearly taught me that it is not one god with two parts, but two gods. Did they finally realize that this doesn't match with all the verses about only one God in the Bible?
If they are serious about saying father and mother are only one god, then they will have to give up their idea that "elohim" means plural Gods. Otherwise they are doing the same thing that Christianity does with the Trinity.
Too late loocpoc Genny gets credit for that ๐
Wrong Shimon. Genny shows the fallacy of the dual god argument put forth by WMSCOG. There is no Biblical support of that concept. Christians (unlike Ahnians) believe that the birth of Christ Jesus fulfilled the Messiah prophesies of the Old Testament (the 75% of the Bible that is Jewish). To erase the Original Sin of Adam and to allow the reunification with God and his human creation, Jesus had to die and rise again. The Crucifixtion was his death, the Resurrection was his conquering death, fulfilling the Messiah Scriptures and reopening the relationship between Man and his Creator that was cut off by Adam and the Original Sin.
Following his Resurrection, God's Holy Spirit came to the Apostles and spread through their teaching and spreading of the Word (Gospels).
God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. That's it, Shimon. That's what a Christian MUST believe if they consider themselves Christian. This belief in the Son and the Spirit is the fundamental difference between Christians and Jews.
Right on, Sueno. ๐
shimon wrote:
Too late loocpoc Genny gets credit for that ๐
Shimon, do you mean the part about Jesus allowing Himself to die? I know I wrote about that somewhere, but I forget where…
edited — Found it. It's here: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=40
genny wrote:
Right on, Sueno. ๐
shimon wrote:
Too late loocpoc Genny gets credit for that ๐
Shimon, do you mean the part about Jesus allowing Himself to die? I know I wrote about that somewhere, but I forget where…
edited — Found it. It's here: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=40
Loocpoc said, "I can go tit for tat with scripture to prove Jesus was not G-d in the flesh along with Ahn and Zhang…."
Which could mean Jesus Ahn Sahnghong and Zhag Gil Jah are not God OR could mean Jesus alone was God in the flesh not along with Ahn Sahnghong and Zahng Gil Jah
He meant the first but I pretended he meant the second and said you proved it lol
I know you don't hence I said I pretended you meant the second ๐
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