About their financials

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  • #8023
    MSrichard
    Participant

    A good friend of mine and client, who attends this church in upstate NY, has come to me for financial advise since I have experience in this field. He spoke to me about his church and the way they ask for church contributions for events, purchases, renovations, etc. I took a look into their statements and it looked like any regular one I have seen in the past. However, to my understanding from what my client said, this has been manipulated. For one, when the church reports an EXPENSE it must come out from the accounts the church already has. But it does not entirely come from there, but from its members. He told me he gives tithes to the church because it is a law, which is understandable in their belief, but he says that he assumed that ALL expenses are taken out from all the tithes. But he told me he raised suspicion when the church constantly asks for contributions for their events and renovations and asks their members to keep the receipts in order that they be recorded. To my understanding the church fulfills most of its expense from the members, and then records them as expenses in their financials without actually digging into their tithes (cash) account. So I told my good friend why he gives them more cash if every week he is giving upwards of about 100$. He told me they say it is a “blessing” and that those with “willing mind” should contribute, these were his own words. So to me it seems that if they do not contribute, they will be regarded as unfaithful followers and be shunned from others. I wanted to shed some light and see if anyone else encountered such things while attending this church?

    On another note, my friend said the main pastor with a passion compares his church to the Jehovah’s witnesses church and that their church should be more majestic then theirs. He believes this is coveting, and coming from the main person seems incorrect. He is still attending the church until this day.

    -Rich

  • #72150

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Not sure about the non profit world, but in my world I would have to value that "in kind" donation and report it.  We, however, operate in the for profit world.  So if a customer remodels a room for our business, and "donates" his/her labor for that, we have to establish a fair market value of that labor and report it as income.  Of course, for us, such a scenario would most likely involve an exchange rather than a donation.  For example, the person would do the remodel labor, we would establish a value for it, and then "exchange" that value for a product we sell.  In that case, the fair value income comes in as income, and our cost of the "exchanged product" would be an off setting expense.

    Again, not sure about the non profit world, but in a similar scenario, the cult member "donates" $1,000 worth of free labor …. but the cult doesn't report a fair value on this as "tithing income"?  If it did, would there be an off setting expense?  What would that be?  Since a non profit doesn't pay tax on income, it's all a wash.  However it is a mis representation of actual income on their part.

    Also if cult members are "donating" labor, there could be code violations and also violations of state and federal worker insurance regulations, for example, in our state I think the cult would need to pay disability insurance premiums (workmen's comp) and unemployment insurance premiums on the value of that labor.

    #72151

    MountainMom
    Participant

    This is exactly the type of thing most of us here were expecting that the leaders of this group were doing.  I have also talked to a former member who expressed some other issues with their financial dealings, and they were along these lines.  There is a lot of info out there that is starting to leak from the financial "containers" now.

    #72152

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I'll check into the workmen's comp and liability insurance issues.  Be nice if we can establish in fact they are required under the states they operate in to report donated labor.  Also there may be issues if a cult member donates hard goods, like for example, a new computer or TV or speaker system …. there may or may not be reporting requirements based on state laws.

    This may be nothing of consequence but it is worth checking out.  Be nice to have some state watchdogs go after this cult.

    #72153

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    They will not utilize W.Comp. I wonder if they even have insurance for full time Deacons. I saw one member get cut really bad, when they had us cleaning a creek at the New Windsor facility. He was bleeding and brought himself to the E.R. If a member, doing free labor, hurts themselves, they wouldnt pay one hospital bill. Members spend alot of their hard earned money for this church. And they are always screaming about what they need.

    #72154

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Well that person in a normal work environment could file a claim under liability insurance for job related injury.  Not sure how this works for people injured while "donating" labor to a religious organization.  I'll check it out.

    #72155

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Just wanted to bump this back up.  I really don't understand why the IRS isn't looking into this group who is not transparent at all with their finances.  They will shake the average citizen down for even an oversight of a few hundred on their tax return.  Why won't they look into a group that could possibly (alledgedly) be abusing the tax system to the tune of hundreds of millions by saying they are a "religion"?  Just my question, just my opinion.

    #72156

    Square1
    Participant

    They are most certainly abusing the tax system. Do some research on Big Shine; it appears they are taking money back to "Mother" when members go to see her. Everywhere there's a church, there's a Big Shine. Look into the massive court case with all the allegations, there's too many to put on here. 

    #72157

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Yes, Big Shine and the Wms are very closely linked.  Their logo was seen on correspondence from a Pastor.  It's just so obvious.  Has been for a long time. 

    #72158

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Bump. 

    #72159

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    @Mountain I think its harder for the IRS to dig, when the corporation being delt with has roots in another country. Although Ridgewood “Zion” is considered the WMS HQ in the US, they cover up well. I wonder when one of the Lees or Parks goes to see Zhang, if they have suit cases full of money? I was recently sent some info, that EVERY major Pastor or overseer is from the Lee or Park family. And they are possibly related to either Zhang or General “Pastor”. Can we say, Crime family?

    #72160

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Yes, it is similar to any Mafia type criminal organization in that it's inner structure is controlled by closely related "family" members.  The IRS won't go after a religious entity unless it is pretty sure of a victory.  They lost big time with Scientology.  I doubt you are going to get the Feds involved with WMSCOG.  I would more likely expect some action against them at the state or local level.  The IRS is very much involved into investigating foreign entities that have operations in the US.  However, as far as religions go, I think the IRS gives them far less scrutiny than a for profit corporation.  As a side note, the IRS in the 1980's was successfull prosecuting Sun Myng Moon for tax evasion, he spent time in prison.  Didn't hurt his organization much, however.  When he died he was worth billions.  WMSCOG is a Moonie wanna be ……

    #72161

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    At my “zion”, under thr Dictator-like Korean Overseer, he began a cheap, nut sketchy practice. Prior to his arrival, we had a “Coffee committee”, that set out a basket to receive donations so they could keep the coffee area supplied. When the Korean Overseer came, he lectured us about waste, and we then had a Kcuo machine. But the shadiness came in, when we had to pay 1$ for a Kcup. Now, kcup boxes can be pricy, but nowadays a thrifty shopper can find a box of 12-20 for around 8$. So although the church wouldnt be making Huge money of this shady practice, it is pretty cheesy. Certain amenities don’t pay for themselves, understood, but over time it would add up.

    #72162

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    I’m part of a hot sauce committee myself. But that’s just me. 🙂

    So the feds don’t want to get involved? So if you asked the feds “do you know the South Korean political agenda that the wmscog is secretly pursuing? ” would they say: “meh? Whichever, I don’t know, I don’t care”.

    I mean South Korean and America are on the same side right?

    The Feds should get involved actually. Find out the political side they don’t know about.

    #72163

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    @Mayor Im sure the Feds have investigated to some exstent. Im sure you’ve realized like I have, the community service Smokescreen is to look good to Uncle Sam.Thats also why they NEVER published the 2012 end of the world theory, so that they won’t look like a dangerous, “drink the Koolaid” cult.

    #72164

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Untouchable, there actually is something in print about this.  It's written in Korean, but I had a Korean lady decipher.  It also clearly states numbers of how they came up with the 2012 date.  It's really funny, though, because at the same time they were telling members in Chicago that the end of the world was in 2012, they were telling newbies in Seattle the end would be 2018!  I talked to the parent of a boy who was told that.  They got him out with an intervention in 2011.  I think my son was doubting heavily in 2011 as well, but they scooped him back in.  He sure wasn't as happy or enthusiastic about going to church all the time as he had been before.  He was just so far away, and it was so hard to talk to him about this. Things could not be done from a distance.  Wish he would have decided for himself at that time to really look at the obvious deceptions.  Each year I have that hopeful feeling, "Could this be the year?"  And then I get so depressed when it isn't. 

    #72165

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    Mountain– He will come out. I wish I had written down the 2012 Sermon, as they didn’t allow us to do it. They seem to have abandoned the end of the world theories. Deep down I feel leadership knows they have told lies

    #72166

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    Leadership seemed ashamed in 2013, from what I saw anyways. Did you say that 2018 is a new end date? You gotta be kidding.

    #72167

    MountainMom
    Participant

    They were actually telling a  kid out in Seattle in 2011 that the end date was going to be in 2018.  This was at the same time they were telling my son in Chicago that the end date was going to be by the end of 2012.  M son's friend and fellow COG member told several witnesses in 2010 that he was so positive that it would be in 2012 that if it wasn't, he thought the church should shut it's doors and put a padlock on them!  This guy is still a member to this day, though.  Apparently he wasn't as sure as he thought he was. 

    #72168

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    When I was taught the 2012 teaching, and when the summer of 2012 arrived, I was confused. The cog said one thing, the bible something different, and the signs in the world were not there. 2012 was relatively calm for world events (that I remember). Believe the the bible, no one knows the day or hour. That includes the year as well.

    Do not, do NOT believe an indoctrinated cog worker.

    #72169

    Mayor and Mike
    Participant

    I like that idea. Shut the church doors and put a lock on it. Weld ‘er shut. Keep the south Korean citizens locked in, members that is, and keep we honest, hard working citizens out.

    lol.

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