OMG!!!!! WOW!!!!

  • #70053

    Momsix828
    Participant

    Oh! One more thing, as for breaking up families as you can see…our family’s doing great!

    #70054

    jw03550
    Participant

    Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

    Actually I believe this is a very well produced piece of propaganda.  Very slick.  And very effective.  The Korean handlers are getting smarter about using the internet to KEEP their recruits.  This piece of propaganda is produced for recently recruited members running into opposition from their families.  It is NOT produced to try to influence us.  If we are to be effective we need to recognize when they succeed and we need to react with opposing measures that are equally effective.  Means we need a better organized and effective coordinated response to their propaganda.  Ideas?

    I could say that Heinrich is a wms sympathizer, or

    I could say that he is accurate.

    He's accurate.

    But the division here that I've experienced makes me want to puke.

    I'll pm ideas if I can come up with some.

    #70055

    Momsix828 wrote:

    Momsix828.  Hello Mom, I sympathize with your story and I know it's not easy to let all these feelings out.. Sometimes i wish I can share my own personal story, but by doing that i feel that i'm giving away to much info, (just like you said) therefore they would know who i am. I truly feel sorry for all the moms (UpsetMOM, MountainMOM and all other Moms that have kids in these group, for all the hardships and all the sleepless night they have to endure thinking when would finally be the day that i have my kid back… You see.. when we are young we always have to hear all these predicaments and sermons from our mom's that in our minds we say (shut up i don't wanna hear it anymore) but as we grow older we realized that all these things our mom told us were all true and they were doing it for a reason.. for us to avoid those troubles we go thru life.. no matter how old we are to our moms we would always be their babies….

    The few times that i went to my love ones zion.. if saw all these new kids that they were trying to recruit coming for the first time and then leaving with a smile on their face.. so many times i felt compelled to follow them after the studies and talking to them and telling them to not go there again.. to avoid a heartbreak to their parents… it was like you said MOMSiX… like a sheep walking along the pit only to be slaughter… I prey for all the moms whose kids fall in this trap… because it's exactly like something I once read in this forum once .. (It's like you, trying to help a bear set FREE, who's been caught in a bear trap, but the bear wild instints and self-defense mechanism only make him fight you back, because he doesn't know any better) The same way some parents try so hard to set their kids free, but their new believes and defensive mechanisms engraved in their heads by this group only make them fight you back, because they don't know any better…

    #70056

    Momsix828
    Participant

    Thanks Jesus will set you free. Good info and good advice. I really don’t care if my kids know I’m on this website because I have told them I am on it many times. I get great comfort knowing I’m not the only one hurt by this church. I don’t care if the leaders know I know their schemes. I’m just angry they enticed my child into being on a propaganda video. I feel like they singled her out. She was the only one from that church on it. Thanks again.

    #70057

    MountainMom
    Participant

    @Momsix: I have talked to other people who were once on videos promoting the church, and they later said they were talked into it, didn’t really want to do it. They disagreed with it entirely later on when they came out. I feel your pain and your anger too about having your daughter on one of their propaganda videos. It is such a pathetic attempt to sidestep the truth of the issue: they really do destroy families, and they don’t care as long as they can keep their members manipulated and the cash flowing in.

    That letter “Sam” wrote was really the blueprint they use when having their recruits argue with their parents who are devastated when they find out what their son/daugher is involved in. I recognized several of the arguments on there myself, as my son used them as well. Unfortunately, the whole thing is flawed because his life since he joined them hasn’t turned out to be the happy fairy tale they say will happen if they just “don’t have to choose.”

    #70058

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Like MountainMom we also have heard the "blueprint" arguments over the past few years.  

    Bottom line is that the cult demands a lot of personal time.  As several who have left pointed out repeatedly, it is rise early for prayer, go to work, after work go to the church, attend "study" or "recruiting" activities, go home late.  Repeat, next day, day in, day out.  

    Be great to make some cartoon type videos showing the wear and tear on the members from this grind!

    #70059

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    I am willing to bet, they are agressively beginning to push members to gain worldy status. I received a message response to my tedtimony on the People Mag. article about WMS. The member stated;

    “In the 5 years I have been a member, I have been promoted 3 times, and received my Masters degree. I have never been asked not to attend college.”

    Welp, I responded on the several members I know who chose, under WMS pressure, didnt go to college. One who I was particularly close with told me how they always thought “Father was going to come any day” so school wasnt a priority. But a TRUE church would tell its members that its ok to get a degree. But they dont. WMS alwsys plays the “Its the members decision” standpoint. Some of the things they leave to the member, are easy for a real church to stand on.

    #70060

    MountainMom
    Participant

    I can no longer count the number of parents I have talked to who were devastated because their son/daughter either dropped out of college or turned down a college scholarship because they were told by their Wms handler, "You should be preaching, Father is coming soon, Lives are at stake!  What is more important, school, or saving souls?"   The 2012 prophecy lie had many scrambling because they really thought that preaching and recruiting was the only important thing and even said they were going to give more money and time because nothing was going to matter soon anyway.  

    I know of so many who have lost their jobs and/or career track as well due to chuirch demands.  They can deny it, but it is most certainly true.  

    #70061

    Ms Freedom
    Participant

    I'm a little confused about this video. Is the target their current members or people they want to become members. Either way – it is missing the target. If they are trying to show their members that they don't break up families, why bother? The current members already believe all the c-rap about Hassan and they believe that families matter to the leaders – so no effect there.

    If they are targeting outside people, they are not connecting the dots. They expect people to believe that based on the word of one person (in this case – an African American woman – which to me seems a little racist – her being made the "Satan planting the seed" person) that the family is going to call a cult expert? Makes no sense! If their son is happy and shows love to his family, and spends time with his family, and doesn't move out, and stays in school, etc. then what is the big deal? Obviously, they are leaving out the part of why the parents contacted the cult expert for an intervention. If I was outside looking in – that doesn't make sense. The mother would have to have found information validating the accusation that the woman made that "this is a cult." 

    Also, it doesn't make sense that the whole thing has a happy ending – what was the point? Are they trying to show that Hassan broke up the family? He didn't call the parents looking for interventions – THEY CALLED HIM! 

    Bad video – but hey – that's what happens when the members making the video didn't stay in school and study advertising!

    #70062

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    They are clearly trying to work on Future members subconscious. I can link all of the “Slanderers” to Ex members who do videos, and Hassan. The Black woman in a gown, is supposed to be Renita Payno. The man with the “NewYork” accent is an attempt at Ron Ramos. The cult expert is Hassan. So what this does, is, if a member strays and watches the Videos, they have a negative image already in their minds. This is an attempt to keep members.

    #70063

    MountainMom
    Participant

    I actually know the family that this video was based on, and believe me, it didn't have the happy ending they portray in the video.  This son's involvement was devastating to this family.  In a three year period he has seen his parents twice.  He has no communication with his siblings and barely any with his parents.  I have heard stories like this over and over again.  WMS may try to partray that they don't separate families (and even try to blame it on Hassan) but then why are there so many heartbreaking stories of members turned against their families?  Only a handful of families have called on Hassan for help, so what caused all the other separations? 

    I really hope the parents of this young man don't see the video.  It would just be another blow to them that their son has reduced his parents to cartoon characters.

    #70064

    jw03550
    Participant

    UntouchableJ wrote:

    WMS alwsys plays the "Its the members decision" standpoint.

    thats because it is the member's decision.

    but those decisions, while made by the member, are done within the environment that the WMSCOG has set up, thereby tipping the influence greatly in its favor for its desired outcomes.

    therefore,

    telling members that they are brainwashed and that they don't make their own decisions is going to be counter-productive

    #70065

    Momsix828
    Participant

    I get the message from the video that families shouldn’t hire cult experts if their family member decides to get in the cult. Just accept their decision and your family member will stick around. The deacon from NJ who talked with my husband and I told us he would “let” my daughter come home if we didn’t do anything fishy. I asked what’s fishy and he said he knew parents that had locked their child in a closet when they went home. We promised we wouldn’t lock her in a closet. (Stupid statement deserves a stupid answer)I knew he was talking about an intervention.

    #70066

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    @Momsix. I cant beleive the deacon said, “let” her come home. So then they know what they are doing. Terrible.

    #70067

    Ms Freedom
    Participant

    So in contrast to JW3550’s point, not exactly her decision if the deacon is saying he will “let” her come home. JW – that means he is giving permission which means it is the deacon’s decision – not her decision. I’m sure the daughter would say (in public) that she made the decision but we all know who is making the decisions. AND IT’S NOT THE MEMBERS!!

    The people that have left and have spoken out and are active on this site had a hard time with losing their freedom and left because they started seeing the lies and discrepancies. I think many members see the same thing but they dismiss the thoughts, push them away, ignore them and feel they are doing the right thing by not giving into them. But that is what the people of Jonestown did; they trusted their leader instead of their instincts. They left their families, quit their jobs and followed their leader to another country. They are dead.

    #70068

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    @JW I see a small point your making. Yes, in essence calling a Brainwashed person, well, “Brainwashed”, doesnt undo the washing. Its like calling a fat person “Fat” as if they will just become skinny. So I do think calling your loved one that may be very counter productive. But, they actions are coercive and manipulative. There are also varying degrees of Brainwashing. I’m in a Fraternity, and hazing is NOT all physical. I’ve seen alot of things happen just by coercive speech. Lots. The ostracizing, smear campaigning etc have psychological ramifications to the member.

    #70069

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Ms Freedom wrote:

    So in contrast to JW3550's point, not exactly her decision if the deacon is saying he will "let" her come home. JW – that means he is giving permission which means it is the deacon's decision – not her decision. I'm sure the daughter would say (in public) that she made the decision but we all know who is making the decisions. AND IT'S NOT THE MEMBERS!!

    The people that have left and have spoken out and are active on this site had a hard time with losing their freedom and left because they started seeing the lies and discrepancies. I think many members see the same thing but they dismiss the thoughts, push them away, ignore them and feel they are doing the right thing by not giving into them. But that is what the people of Jonestown did; they trusted their leader instead of their instincts. They left their families, quit their jobs and followed their leader to another country. They are dead.

     I agree completely, Ms Freedom.  The reality of the decision making is apparent when you really look at the Wms. 

    #70070

    Anonymous
    Inactive

    UntouchableJ wrote:

    … in essence calling a Brainwashed person, well, "Brainwashed", doesn't undo the washing. Its like calling a fat person "Fat" as if they will just become skinny. 

    UntouchableJ's analogy is funny but true!  

    Our child both accuses us of "being brainwashed" and of "trying to brainwash".  We avoid that topic now ….. 

    #70071

    jw03550
    Participant

    Ms Freedom wrote:

    So in contrast to JW3550's point, not exactly her decision if the deacon is saying he will "let" her come home. JW – that means he is giving permission which means it is the deacon's decision – not her decision.

    Wouldnt this logic be analogous to traffic lights giving us permission to stop and go?  We choose to stop, because if we dont there are consequences – an accident or a traffic ticket, or…nothing.  We can go through red lights any time we choose to.  The fact that we follow traffic lights in almost all circumstances does not make us brainwashed.  We still have choices.

    We stop/obey for various reasons: because of fear of punishment; because of setting a good example for others, and so on.  Each person has his/her own reasons and even then they likely vary by circumstance.

    That being said, I'm not discounting the immense amount of influence exerted by the group upon its members; just that it is normal behavior that some groups choose to exploit….once they have the individual inside of its circle of influence.

    #70072

    David
    Participant

    Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

    UntouchableJ wrote:

    … in essence calling a Brainwashed person, well, "Brainwashed", doesn't undo the washing. Its like calling a fat person "Fat" as if they will just become skinny. 

    UntouchableJ's analogy is funny but true!  

    Our child both accuses us of "being brainwashed" and of "trying to brainwash".  We avoid that topic now ….. 

     Heinrich, that has been their rallying cry for some time now, that the experts are brainwashing those who have loved ones trapped into believeing it's a cult. I agree it is best to avoid the topic.

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