This is how badly the WMSCOG can damage a person's psyche (VIDEO)

  • #68996

    setufree
    Participant

    I remember posting a few of his now deleted older videos up.

    At first people thought he was just making videos mocking them, but I did PM him and he made a few more videos saying he suffered from some mental issues, was asked to leave WMS because of this, but still is a firm believer in father and mother.

    He posted a video about it, it was very hard to watch and it may still be up on his facebook page under the same account name.  When I looked more into his story on facebook, he makes a lot of posts defending the WMS, and his family seemed concerned in their replies. 

    #68997

    Brian Taylor
    Participant

    setufree wrote:

    I remember posting a few of his now deleted older videos up.

    At first people thought he was just making videos mocking them, but I did PM him and he made a few more videos saying he suffered from some mental issues, was asked to leave WMS because of this, but still is a firm believer in father and mother.

    He posted a video about it, it was very hard to watch and it may still be up on his facebook page under the same account name.  When I looked more into his story on facebook, he makes a lot of posts defending the WMS, and his family seemed concerned in their replies. 

    Yes, whatever issues he may have had prior to his involvement , the WMS shurely would not help. I've also seen his comments and posts where he defends the cult even though he no longer attends.

    #68998

    Smurf
    Participant
    #68999

    David
    Participant

    I never thought I would say this but it's not fair to blame the wms for Chadd and Clements apparent mental health issues.

    Thaat said, I don't know where they were prior to joining so I guess anything is possible

    #69000

    Brian Taylor
    Participant

    David wrote:

    I never thought I would say this but it's not fair to blame the wms for Chadd and Clements apparent mental health issues.

    Thaat said, I don't know where they were prior to joining so I guess anything is possible

    You could be right. But in any case, adding messianic, apocalyptic delusions to an already existing mental ailment is , in my opinion, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

    #69001

    Kai TIng
    Participant

    Do not blame the wmscog for someone else's illness, that's just unfair.

    #69002

    David
    Participant

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    David wrote:

    I never thought I would say this but it's not fair to blame the wms for Chadd and Clements apparent mental health issues.

    Thaat said, I don't know where they were prior to joining so I guess anything is possible

    You could be right. But in any case, adding messianic, apocalyptic delusions to an already existing mental ailment is , in my opinion, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

     I certainly wouldn't argue with that Brian, I hope someone is there for them, to get the help, I think they need.

    My church would not kick someone out for having psychiatric issues.

    My church would contact their families and get them the help they need.

    I wonder what the wms did or is doing for them?

    Maybe one of the wms people monitoring this site 24/7 would be kind enough to let us know?

    #69003

    MountainMom
    Participant

    David wrote:

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    David wrote:

    I never thought I would say this but it's not fair to blame the wms for Chadd and Clements apparent mental health issues.

    Thaat said, I don't know where they were prior to joining so I guess anything is possible

    You could be right. But in any case, adding messianic, apocalyptic delusions to an already existing mental ailment is , in my opinion, is like pouring gasoline on a fire.

     I certainly wouldn't argue with that Brian, I hope someone is there for them, to get the help, I think they need.

    My church would not kick someone out for having psychiatric issues.

    My church would contact their families and get them the help they need.

    I wonder what the wms did or is doing for them?

    Maybe one of the wms people monitoring this site 24/7 would be kind enough to let us know?

     When I saw Clements first video I have to admit that I thought he was some kind of comic genius doing a mock-up of the WMS!  I had no idea he was really serious.  I thought it was absolutely something that should be seen by everyone because it depicted the fanaticism of the WMS members so well (although with a just over the top presentation, I thought, because that is how SNL would have depicted it for comic effect, Lol).  Honestly, the fanaticism isn't way out of line with their teachings at all, in my opinion.  I just thought he was making a little bit of fun of the "church."  Maybe not.  I hope he gets help.  I think the Wms should be concerned that he gets help as well.  Rejecting a guy like him probably wasn't a good move for them. 

     

    #69004

    Kai TIng
    Participant

    so did the wmscog kick him out due to his illness or something? what is his story?

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

     

    Since the wmscog believe that this life is temporary and not important, it makes perfect sense to me that they took someone with mental illness in (as long as he tithes, lol), and bring him to heaven through methods that they believe are right (salvation by works, and praying to another name)

    #69005

    David
    Participant

    Kai TIng wrote:

    so did the wmscog kick him out due to his illness or something? what is his story?

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

     

    Since the wmscog believe that this life is temporary and not important, it makes perfect sense to me that they took someone with mental illness in (as long as he tithes, lol), and bring him to heaven through methods that they believe are right (salvation by works, and praying to another name)

     I'm not sure exactly what his status is with the wms but I heard he was asked to leave. I don't know if it was a credible source, I saw it on facebook and I can't find it anymore so it may or may not be true

    #69006

    Brian Taylor
    Participant

    Kai TIng wrote:

    so did the wmscog kick him out due to his illness or something? what is his story?

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

     

    Since the wmscog believe that this life is temporary and not important, it makes perfect sense to me that they took someone with mental illness in (as long as he tithes, lol), and bring him to heaven through methods that they believe are right (salvation by works, and praying to another name)

    I must say, your first supposition is accurate.While the preceeding ones are not. I speak from experience having once been a "gospel worker". During my time in the WMSCOG it was aggresively impressed upon us that we must find the perfect children of god because time is short. So because of this, we were told that people with drug addictions, homosexuals, homeless people or any one for that matter, who could not fit into the perfect niche of being a gospel worker, was not to be recruited. So, the wmscog does discriminate, I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason Clement made it in is because the first impression upon meeting him would be that of an eccentric college kid. Had they known of his somewhat ominous condition they would not have spoken to him in the first place. I have seen this happen more then once during my time.

    #69007

    MountainMom
    Participant

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    Kai TIng wrote:

    so did the wmscog kick him out due to his illness or something? what is his story?

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

     

    Since the wmscog believe that this life is temporary and not important, it makes perfect sense to me that they took someone with mental illness in (as long as he tithes, lol), and bring him to heaven through methods that they believe are right (salvation by works, and praying to another name)

    I must say, your first supposition is accurate.While the preceeding ones are not. I speak from experience having once been a "gospel worker". During my time in the WMSCOG it was aggresively impressed upon us that we must find the perfect children of god because time is short. So because of this, we were told that people with drug addictions, homosexuals, homeless people or any one for that matter, who could not fit into the perfect niche of being a gospel worker, was not to be recruited. So, the wmscog does discriminate, I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason Clement made it in is because the first impression upon meeting him would be that of an eccentric college kid. Had they known of his somewhat ominous condition they would not have spoken to him in the first place. I have seen this happen more then once during my time.

     Exactly, Brian.  I have heard so many times that they don't encourage recruiting of anyone but people they think they can use.  They(I mean the leaders when I say they) are very concerned with getting people who can preach and recruit for them and/or people who can tithe a good amount.  That is all they really want.  I have heard of people leaving because it broke their heart when they realized the wms didn't want people with disabilities.  It really opened the eyes of these members when they realized that was the case.  That would be a hard one to stomach if you have loved ones with disabilities, which most of us do.  From what I've heard they kind of phase out people with Asperger's as well.  That is something that isn't apparent when they first recruit a person, I am sure.  I bet the love bombing stops pretty fast when they want to reject a person. 

    #69008

    setufree
    Participant

    Brian Taylor wrote:

    Kai TIng wrote:

    so did the wmscog kick him out due to his illness or something? what is his story?

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

     

    Since the wmscog believe that this life is temporary and not important, it makes perfect sense to me that they took someone with mental illness in (as long as he tithes, lol), and bring him to heaven through methods that they believe are right (salvation by works, and praying to another name)

    I must say, your first supposition is accurate.While the preceeding ones are not. I speak from experience having once been a "gospel worker". During my time in the WMSCOG it was aggresively impressed upon us that we must find the perfect children of god because time is short. So because of this, we were told that people with drug addictions, homosexuals, homeless people or any one for that matter, who could not fit into the perfect niche of being a gospel worker, was not to be recruited. So, the wmscog does discriminate, I am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the reason Clement made it in is because the first impression upon meeting him would be that of an eccentric college kid. Had they known of his somewhat ominous condition they would not have spoken to him in the first place. I have seen this happen more then once during my time.

    Yes they have requirements when you are sent out preaching, as you "grow" you will find out it's darker agenda but they tell you in a subtle not so nice way of what good fruit vs bad fruit is.

    In my own experience it was enforced, that it was better that we only bear good fruit and not bad fruit. 

    Bad fruit (this was told to me by members , leaders and such)

    Jobless  –  Make sure anyone we preached to had a job, because if they didn't have a job , it meant they didn't have their life together.  They wouldn't be able to understand the "truth" if they couldn't simply have a regular job.

    Homeless-  There was a sermon on it too from what I've heard from members.  Homeless people would just use us for food or money. i  Simple as that, don't preach to homeless because than we would have to feed them.  They wouldn't be there for F&M, only to see what they could get for free.

    Gays-  Don't preach to them because they choose to live in sin.  Unless it's discovered later on, than they have to change or be doomed for hell.

    Disabled-   Mentally or physically, their sins were of the worst kind when they were in heaven, and the disability their punishment.  I really wanted to scream when I heard that one, I felt that was very harsh.  If someone was discovered to have an illness like that, they were kind of pushed off to the side and lovebombing stopped real quick.

    Anyone over the age of 40. Ajumma (Korean for Auntie)-  They were too old and set in their "ways".

    Jewish people –  The low key shade that was thrown around by the leaders about Jews, in my opinion was borderline racist.  We didn't preach to them because they couldn't handle the truth that we were the Chosen and Promised ones, not them.

    People from other denominations were "of Satan" and in general it was very hard to preach to people, because they had such a long list of who we weren't allowed to preach to..  Yeah, a real diverse loving crowd they are. 

     

     

     

     

    This was all told to me by leaders and the people who led me into this group.  From what I have heard many have similar preaching rules recited to them.

    #69009

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    @setufree Our overseer one Sabbath, was so happy that, “white fruit” was born. He was saying how he had been praying for White fruit. He would also make racial jokes to me and others.

    #69010

    Kai TIng
    Participant

    While I don't deny the fact that this group is extremely judgemental and non-transparent, I do still see some of the "not so beneficial" people in my zion though. (Ya there's many different possible reasons for that, I don't want to get into it)

    My second point was just saying that there is no contradiction in what they try to show on the surface (the friendly, loving one that they want to show, or deceive, whatever), and what they did by recruting that guy. Still my point is this:

    If he was not recruited, people will accuse the wmscog of discrimination and choosing targets for preaching.

    When he was recruited, people accuse the wmscog of pouring gasoline on fire and making his condition worse.

    I am not defending this group because I like them. I left for a reason. There are definitely wrong things going on in there. But blaming someone's illness on this group may be pushing it too far. Was he already ill before joining? And what would a "legit organisation" that focuses on the after life (let's just pretend that such a thing exists, personally I don't believe it) do in this case?

    #69011

    UntouchableJ
    Participant

    Im going to be blunt. Some of the posts and Forum comments, take away from the very essence of this site. Especially coming from Non-exmembers. Just like the man in this video, lets not Blame WMS for his illness. Yes, many of us have found out their lies, but dont have the same arrogance that they claim non members for. As a former member (only recently left) I would have never thought I would be in a cult. Not everyone is emotionally broken, ignorant or stupid. Lets examine why we come to this site , and think before we type.

    #69012

    MountainMom
    Participant

    UntouchableJ wrote:

    Im going to be blunt. Some of the posts and Forum comments, take away from the very essence of this site. Especially coming from Non-exmembers. Just like the man in this video, lets not Blame WMS for his illness. Yes, many of us have found out their lies, but dont have the same arrogance that they claim non members for. As a former member (only recently left) I would have never thought I would be in a cult. Not everyone is emotionally broken, ignorant or stupid. Lets examine why we come to this site , and think before we type.

     Of course you are right.  And pretty much everyone here thinks members and ex members alike are good, smart people who became involved in the cult because they wanted something positive in their lives.  They thought they found it in the Wms.  They had no idea what the Wms really was.  The Wms doesn't want broken or stupid people.  They want people they can use and eventually control.  Untill, of course, they can't anymore. 

    That is my take, anyway.  My son is a very intelligent, good person, and nobody's fool.  If they could get him, they could get anyone. 

    #69013

    MountainMom
    Participant

    I don't want to blame the Wms for causing mental illness in their members, if their members were formerly not mentally ill.  I do agree with Brian that if it happens that someone already has some kind of psychosis, the Wms can't/won't  help them.  Not that good hearted members wouldn't want to help, it is just that it is my opinion that the leaders would rather cast them out as "unusable" people.  My opinion.

    However, isn't depression considered a mental illness?  How many non-member mothers, fathers, spouses, children etc., who have loved ones involved in the Wms have experienced their very first bout with lingering depression after their loved ones join the cult?   I can attest to many I have talked to who had to deal with this, and for the first time in their lives, had to take anti-depressants as a direct result of dealing with the cult.  And it gets even darker than that. 

    The members aren't the only victims.  The cult minimizes the impact of the members family.  They usually don't know untill after they are out how hard it was on the people who really love them.

    #69014

    Abhigail Delema
    Participant

    Yesterday the 20 dec 2015 the zion in mumbai India witnessed two weddings two brothers from the same family got married to one sister from mumbai zion whose brother is a decon in the zion else where and also married to a Korean,and heading a church else where.The mother is also a deconess and the father who is not in zion is against the marriage.I just wonder at times how do these youth children agree to all what they say,they have left their college and completly brain washed and just follow what the assembly in Korea tells them to do.One of the other decons who was in Raipur married to a korean is demoted from his post of heading the church and is now in mumbai both husband and wife are working guess because she is waiting for her citizen ship in India.When i was in zion these same kids were told the time is very near father will come anytime we should focus on saving souls and go back to heaven, brothers should not talk or have any relationship with sisters out of zion this was in the year 2009 we have just 3 years then we will go to heaven,but today suprised to see them totally brain washed and even getting married.

    #69015

    Abhigail Delema
    Participant

    Today in our zion we heard the words of mother which was heart touching.<

    That time my heart started beating faster.really this is the year which was prophesied.

    And also most of the pastors asked mother today we are doing the closing meeting of 2011 so mother where we will meet next year.mothere sad those wha has ear will hear and those who have understanding will and i will say nothing more…

    OH.. really mothers words touched my heart.

    sarang ha mida Amoni.

    I just got this write up from a member in zion has put up on Face book in 2011 if anyone want to see who this member is please PM me i will give you the details,Steve hassan was so right in saying this group has charetrastics of a cult and they are simimilar with their wedding patterns just like the moonies.

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