- Topic
A few weeks ago, a few people from this website and myself sat down for coffee and discussion. The discussion wound up lasting as long as four or five hours. However, there was a point touched on towards the end of the meeting which I feel is very important and worthy to be highlighted. That point is the "killing blow". One person who was with us made the point that most religious cults ( scientology, mormonism, JW, moonies, ect) have at least one indisputable contradiction, erroneous delusion or unveiled lie that we can point to and say "see, Its all*** ". This is what he meant when he referred to the "killing blow". So my obvious question is this: What is the killing blow for the WMSCOG? I know that there have been many contradictions, scandals and absurdities about the cult revealed by many former members on this forum and elsewhere. The problem is, the cult has always had a convenient explanation to retain the loyalty of their deep rooted members.( and I use the word convenient with the utmost attitude of derision). So allow me to be the first.
This is my "killing blow" with regards to the WMSCOG being the only true church. ASH never founded the WMSCOG. According to thier own prophecies surrounding King David, it becomes a certain impossibility. Let me step aside for a moment and explain the prophecy of King David: King David in the old testament ruled israel for forty years, Jesus is the prophetic king david ( WMSCOG doctrine) therefore the ministry carried out by Christ must likewise last for forty years. Jesus preached for three years ( this is disputed by secular scholars but accepted by the cult) therefore Christ at his second coming must preach for the remaining thirty seven years to fulfill the prophecy. The cult claims that this fulfillment took place from 1948 when ASH began preaching the passover until 1985 when he died. But here aslso arises the problem. As we all know, The church which ASH founded was the NCPOG. This was the title which ASH operated under. This was his church. This is what he is most closely related to. The WMSCOG absolutely did not exist while he was alive. And they therefore cannot be the "church established by the root of David" ( this is actually the title for one of thier sermons in the course class books). I believe that this is indisputable.
They may now be trying to back track and claim that they never said certain things but I, and anyone else who came in to the cult around 2011 or before, have dated notes and books to validate and prove the fact that we were taught that ASH claimed to have started the WMSCOG in his house in 1948, something that we now know is blatantly false.
In thier propaganda videos they show a snippet of writing that is supposedly from the diaries of ASH where he said " I follow mother" . The problem with this is that it gives rise to other clear contradictions such as the fact that the only other time he wrote about a heavenly mother was to say that there is not one. So he was either contradicting himself or lying, niether of those things are within the range or accepted behaviors for someone claiming to be God. Well, unless……they just made up the whole "I follow mother" thing up which is the most likely conclusion if you ask me.
So, to conclude, The facts given above are why I can say with confidence that the WMSCOG, thier teachings, thier doctrine, thier prophecy and thier history is nothing more then a giant, stinking, load of***
I'd love to hear your killing blow as well.
Killing blow from a biblical standpoint – Their god is dead. Real one is still alive. What would be the need of a new body if He still has the old one, the one with the holes in His hands?
From a secular standpoint – 100% overlapping of methods used in all other cults. Remove the deity and you get the same result everytime. They are all the same.
Brian Taylor wrote:
This is my "killing blow" with regards to the WMSCOG being the only true church. ASH never founded the WMSCOG. According to thier own prophecies surrounding King David, it becomes a certain impossibility. Let me step aside for a moment and explain the prophecy of King David: King David in the old testament ruled israel for forty years, Jesus is the prophetic king david ( WMSCOG doctrine) therefore the ministry carried out by Christ must likewise last for forty years. Jesus preached for three years ( this is disputed by secular scholars but accepted by the cult) therefore Christ at his second coming must preach for the remaining thirty seven years to fulfill the prophecy. The cult claims that this fulfillment took place from 1948 when ASH began preaching the passover until 1985 when he died. But here aslso arises the problem. As we all know, The church which ASH founded was the NCPOG. This was the title which ASH operated under. This was his church. This is what he is most closely related to. The WMSCOG absolutely did not exist while he was alive. And they therefore cannot be the "church established by the root of David" ( this is actually the title for one of thier sermons in the course class books). I believe that this is indisputable.
I'd love to hear your killing blow as well.
This is one killing blow, definitely. Another is Ahn's written refutation of anyone being a "mother god".
Great thread, hope to hear from others …..
Wmscog and ncpcog are both a split of the same church it’s kinda like the fight between Catholic and orthodox. As far as three years that seems standard doctrine. ( not the37 of course)
Definitely ahns book is a killing blow and meshes with the first one answering who would be the true amongst the split
Unfortunately for them the teaching of the Passover began approx. ten years earlier. This is just one of the adopted teachings of Ahn. Many other teachings from several other recognized cult groups and other religions are all part of the teachings of Ahn.
Here's another killer blow; Ahn preached that the only savior in this age and the next till the end of time is Jesus the Christ! Oh Snap!
Once again it sucks to be an active member of the WMSCOG. I can't imagine believing in something that is so undefendable right down to its foundational teachings. Like I said, it must really suck!
BTW, Ahn's son is still a part of the NCPOG. The son of their man made created god doesn't belong to the WMSCOG. Once again, Oh Snap!
The killing blow for me? Here are a couple…
The seventh month feast error–when they celebrated the 7th month feasts, even saying it was the 7th month, but it was actually the 8th month. (See this thread: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=4646)
The historical inaccuracies with their Daniel teaching (see this thread: https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=4642)
Simon wrote:
Wmscog and ncpcog are both a split of the same church it's kinda like the fight between Catholic and orthodox.
Not true.
NCPOG was founded directly by Ahn. His family took control of NCPOG soon after he died. WMSCOG was founded by disgruntled (and in the case of Zhang Gil Jah) disinherited former NCPOG members after he died. There is no evidence that I have seen that indicates Mr. Ahn had any desire to create any other church. As far as your example of the Roman Catholic vs Eastern Orthodox churches … it is not similar at all to NCPOG vs WMSCOG …. the split was over the anointing of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor by the Roman Pope and some serious competition between the leaders in Rome and Constantinople. Fundamentally the theological beliefs of the 2 churches are very similar. NCPOG has NO Mother God. WMSCOG is all ABOUT a Mother God. There is no such HUGE theological break between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.
their elders word disciples of ahns the fact that corrupted on teaching does not negate that fact
Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:
Simon wrote:
Wmscog and ncpcog are both a split of the same church it's kinda like the fight between Catholic and orthodox.
Not true.
NCPOG was founded directly by Ahn. His family took control of NCPOG soon after he died. WMSCOG was founded by disgruntled (and in the case of Zhang Gil Jah) disinherited former NCPOG members after he died. There is no evidence that I have seen that indicates Mr. Ahn had any desire to create any other church. As far as your example of the Roman Catholic vs Eastern Orthodox churches … it is not similar at all to NCPOG vs WMSCOG …. the split was over the anointing of Charlemagne as Holy Roman Emperor by the Roman Pope and some serious competition between the leaders in Rome and Constantinople. Fundamentally the theological beliefs of the 2 churches are very similar. NCPOG has NO Mother God. WMSCOG is all ABOUT a Mother God. There is no such HUGE theological break between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox.
Simon, please reread what HH wrote, then google "the split between the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Church.
You will find that he is 100% correct, there aren't any huge theological differences between them. They may have tweaked their services a little but the beliefs are essentially the same.
When the wmscog broke away from the ncpcog, they added a second god, of a gender, the previous, decesed god, said, didn't even exist. Thats a pretty big change in beliefs!
Clearly and undeniably, Ahn wrote, the thought of a mother god is delusional. Now there are those who might spin that to say, well, he was talking about another woman who he alledgedly had a previous relationship with, who was claiming to be god. So he wanted everyone to know that god wasn't the first woman he had an affair, god was the second woman he had an affair with.
Of course none of that can be true either because we all know that adultery is a sin and God is without sin! However, Mr. Ahn and Ms. Zhang Jah have both sinned…at least once! (in the words of Joshua, oh snap!)
my killing blow came from the simple test idea from my boyfriend ๐
There are soooo many…. But I would say the fact “heavenly mother” accept that passover picture with Jesus at the last supper to hang on the background. If you are all knowing and dont promote a lie, why believe that is the actual picture.
KC wrote:
my killing blow came from the simple test idea from my boyfriend ๐
What was that?
first of all it doesn’t matter what thecause of thesplit is that does not affect how analogies play out
Second of all there are huge theological distinctions between them
Simon wrote:
first of all it doesn't matter what thecause of thesplit is that does not affect how analogies play out
Second of all there are huge theological distinctions between them
But the name of th thread is "The killing blow" so I naturally wondered what it was that KC said was her "killing blow" test from her boyfriend. I agree that there are a lot of different things that cause WMS members to question. I would like to see them all put out here because I know that there are many different reasons people don't believe their doctrine. Definitely not a "one size fits all" type thing.
I have said before that the idea of there being a living deity on earth, that it is a Korean woman currently liviing in South Korea, would have been a killing blow to me. According to my son, who is now a member, that was the hardest thing for him to swallow about the religion, but he finally did. I think the combination of all the other manipulations before that such as the love bombing and the sleep deprivation tactics softened him up for that. I know that right after the intense festivals and the lack of sleep for about three weeks in September is when he made his firm commitment to the church.
My killing blow(s);
Lies about their statements and teachings. Joining before 2012, I had members in my Zion who had some time in the church. Some if them, “DID” receive the 2012 Prophecy bible study. The church did preach that 2012 was the end. When 2012 approached, it turned into “2012 is the Completion of the Heavenly Temple”. Conveniently, when 2012 passed we were told, “Well, although 2012 has arrived, the new year doesnt technically start until thr Passover.” So when the Passover of 2013 came, and went, we were told, “Now there has to be an inspection process”. I realized then that COG had forgotten that they also told members the Parable of the temple, and that when the Temple was complete, there would be no more need for more material (which we were told meant no more need to keep preaching). But, preaching continued. Then of course a new “Prophecy” came out…The Year of Jubilee. I began to realize that when one Prophecy doesnt come to pass, they would simply make another one. Time and time again. So, WMSCOG preached that the end would come in 1988. When it doesnt, the preach Jonahs Prophecy.
They preach that 2012 is the end….when it doesnt happen, they preach about Completing the Temple in Heaven. Then the 50th Anniversary of COG prophetically corelates to “Year of Jubilee”. COG preached that all “captives” would be free to “return home”, another vague hint at the end coming. After this (currently , as of Oct.2015) they are on their “Jemstone” movement, trying to set a high preaching goal record, and claiming the Gemstones, are ornaments on Heavenly Mothers garment. My point is clear, they are always hinting at the end, and it falls short.
My killing blow(s);
Lies about their statements and teachings. Joining before 2012, I had members in my Zion who had some time in the church. Some if them, “DID” receive the 2012 Prophecy bible study. The church did preach that 2012 was the end. When 2012 approached, it turned into “2012 is the Completion of the Heavenly Temple”. Conveniently, when 2012 passed we were told, “Well, although 2012 has arrived, the new year doesnt technically start until thr Passover.” So when the Passover of 2013 came, and went, we were told, “Now there has to be an inspection process”. I realized then that COG had forgotten that they also told members the Parable of the temple, and that when the Temple was complete, there would be no more need for more material (which we were told meant no more need to keep preaching). But, preaching continued. Then of course a new “Prophecy” came out…The Year of Jubilee. I began to realize that when one Prophecy doesnt come to pass, they would simply make another one. Time and time again. So, WMSCOG preached that the end would come in 1988. When it doesnt, the preach Jonahs Prophecy.
They preach that 2012 is the end….when it doesnt happen, they preach about Completing the Temple in Heaven. Then the 50th Anniversary of COG prophetically corelates to “Year of Jubilee”. COG preached that all “captives” would be free to “return home”, another vague hint at the end coming. After this (currently , as of Oct.2015) they are on their “Jemstone” movement, trying to set a high preaching goal record, and claiming the Gemstones, are ornaments on Heavenly Mothers garment. My point is clear, they are always hinting at the end, and it falls short.
UntouchableJ wrote:
My killing blow(s);
Lies about their statements and teachings. …. When 2012 approached, it turned into "2012 is the Completion of the Heavenly Temple". Conveniently, when 2012 passed we were told, "Well, although 2012 has arrived, the new year doesnt technically start until thr Passover." So when the Passover of 2013 came, and went, we were told, "Now there has to be an inspection process". I realized then that COG had forgotten that they also told members the Parable of the temple, and that when the Temple was complete, there would be no more need for more material (which we were told meant no more need to keep preaching). But, preaching continued. Then of course a new "Prophecy" came out…The Year of Jubilee. I began to realize that when one Prophecy doesnt come to pass, they would simply make another one. Time and time again. So, WMSCOG preached that the end would come in 1988. When it doesnt, the preach Jonahs Prophecy.
They preach that 2012 is the end….when it doesnt happen, they preach about Completing the Temple in Heaven. Then the 50th Anniversary of COG prophetically corelates to "Year of Jubilee". COG preached that all "captives" would be free to "return home", another vague hint at the end coming. After this (currently , as of Oct.2015) they are on their "Jemstone" movement, trying to set a high preaching goal record, and claiming the Gemstones, are ornaments on Heavenly Mothers garment. My point is clear, they are always hinting at the end, and it falls short.
Well said indeed!
And when they cannot lean on biblical prophecy they begin to attack a persons character by saying rubbish like, "Psych! Mama z was testing you and if you're weak and fail this test then you'll betray her and burn in hell."
And this is where this cult is truly dangerous because it's so adaptive almost like a spiritual virus that's always mutating and changing. It changes so much that no one even knows what the original lie was.
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