[Anonymous]

Are the Websites Cult Watch and Watchman Fellowship legit?  Or are they fronts for some other entity?  Anyone have info on these two sites?  Cult Watch attacks Mormons but nothing on their site about the Unification Church (Sun Myung Moon) which I believe is the total inspiration for the founders of WMSCOG.  Is Cult Watch a front for the Unification Church?

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Watchman doesn't list WMSCOG as a cult but it has some info on the Moonies.

[Smurf]

It isn't a front for the moonies, but on a totally unrelated note you know which other cult organization doesn't appear in Cult watch?

Scientology 🙂

[Anonymous]

Interesting.  The Cult Awareness Network was taken over by the Scientologists after a lawsuit victory.  I sent an email to Cult Watch about Moonies not being listed …. I'll post up their response.  Not sure if there is or was any relationship between Cult Watch and the old Cult Awareness Network …. 

[Anonymous]

No response from Cult Watch.  Pretty sure it is a front for Unification Church or Scientology (or both, who knows?).  Watchman Fellowship appears legit and has info on both of those cults.  Also links to some great info!  Nothing on WMSCOG though.  I'm going to work on that.

[Travis]

Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

No response from Cult Watch.  Pretty sure it is a front for Unification Church or Scientology (or both, who knows?).  Watchman Fellowship appears legit and has info on both of those cults.  Also links to some great info!  Nothing on WMSCOG though.  I'm going to work on that.

@Heinrich, is the Cult Watch suppose to protect us from cults. Is that organization suppose to be acting in the favor of the population, as the FDA for the medical system or de FCC for the food system..??

If so, it would a good idea to investigate and report that organisation. Bring the issue to public attention by publicly blogging about it.

 

Let me know..

[Anonymous]

Travis wrote:

@Heinrich, is the Cult Watch suppose to protect us from cults. Is that organization suppose to be acting in the favor of the population, as the FDA for the medical system or de FCC for the food system..??

If so, it would a good idea to investigate and report that organisation. Bring the issue to public attention by publicly blogging about it.

I agree.  Cult Watch appears to me to be a front for either Scientology or Unification Church.  We need to alert all about this, especially WMSCOG members who are questioning and may be searching for info online ……

Watchman Fellowship appears valid and does post quite a bit of useful info.  I would encourage WMSCOG people to explore the Watchman site.  Hopefully it will help get some questioning going about the WMSCOG thought control strategies …..

I will work on getting Watchman to get WMSCOG listed up as a thought control cult (Non-Christian) …. it certainly qualifies according to their criteria ….

By the way, after 3 attempts, Cult Watch still hasn't responded to my email questions ….

[admin]

Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

Travis wrote:

@Heinrich, is the Cult Watch suppose to protect us from cults. Is that organization suppose to be acting in the favor of the population, as the FDA for the medical system or de FCC for the food system..??

If so, it would a good idea to investigate and report that organisation. Bring the issue to public attention by publicly blogging about it.

I agree.  Cult Watch appears to me to be a front for either Scientology or Unification Church.  We need to alert all about this, especially WMSCOG members who are questioning and may be searching for info online ……

Watchman Fellowship appears valid and does post quite a bit of useful info.  I would encourage WMSCOG people to explore the Watchman site.  Hopefully it will help get some questioning going about the WMSCOG thought control strategies …..

I will work on getting Watchman to get WMSCOG listed up as a thought control cult (Non-Christian) …. it certainly qualifies according to their criteria ….

By the way, after 3 attempts, Cult Watch still hasn't responded to my email questions ….

Ummm, actually, ummm, actually:

READ:    https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=5096

[Anonymous]

2 Hoes Ink

Ummm, actually, ummm, actually:

READ:    https://www.examiningthewmscog.com/forum/topic.php?id=5096

Read it.  That thread does not refer to the Cult Watch site I am writing about.

Cult Watch finally responded to my email.  Here is their response:

Hi Heinrich

Sorry, it's really just that we are understaffed. Articles on those groups will be forthcoming.

BTW, we are not in the States, and those groups are not the biggest world wide.

The Cultwatch Team

[Anonymous]

This is from the Cult Watch website:

What we believe

Here is a summary of what we believe.

Remember, always beware of any group that will not tell you openly and up front what they believe.

We believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be directly inspired by God, and inerrant in the original writings, and that they alone are of supreme and final authority in faith and life.

We believe in one God who is Creator of Heaven and Earth; who is Spirit, light, love, and truth, eternal, almighty, infallible and unchangeable, infinitely wise, just, and holy; and that God eternally exists in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, the Eternal Word manifested in flesh. We believe that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, and that He is true God and true man.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice, and that all who believe in Him are justified on the basis of His shed blood.

We believe that our Lord arose from the dead, according to the Scriptures, and in the same body, though glorified, in which He had lived and died, and that His resurrection body is the pattern of that body which, at the return of Christ, will be given to all resurrected believers.

We believe that our Lord ascended to Heaven, was seated at His Father’s right hand, assuring us of the perfection of His work of redemption, and that He now, as head over all things to the Church, is engaged on behalf of the saved as Intercessor and Advocate.

We believe that man was originally created in the image and after the likeness of God, and that he fell through sin; and, as a consequence of his sin, lost his spiritual life, becoming dead in trespasses and sins, and that he became subject to the power of the devil. We also believe that this spiritual death, or total depravity of human nature, has been transmitted to the entire human race, the Man Jesus Christ being excepted; and hence all people are born into the world with a nature that has been corrupted in body, mind, and soul.

We believe that all who receive by faith, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and who confess Him as such before their fellow men, are born again of the Holy Spirit and thereby become children of God.

We believe that the Holy Spirit, being the Third Person of the Godhead, convicts men of sin, regenerates, indwells, baptises, seals, and sets believers apart to a holy life; that He keeps and empowers believers day by day. We believe that He is the Teacher of the Word of God and our Guide for daily life.

We believe in the eternal security and everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the eternal conscious punishment of the lost.

We believe that Christ instituted the ordinances of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, to be observed until He comes.

We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ is composed solely of those who have been redeemed and washed in His Blood, regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and that they are saved to worship and to serve; that it is the responsibility and privilege of all who are saved to seek to win others to Christ, to the “uttermost part of Earth;” that they should seek to live a holy life, to separate themselves from and forsake all that might dishonour God, cast discredit on His cause, or weaken their testimony.

We believe there is a personal devil, a being of great and cunning power who is “The prince and power of the air,” “The prince of this world,” “The god of this age.” We believe that he can exert vast power but only as God permits him to do so; that he shall ultimately be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and shall be tormented day and night forever.

Thanks to our Lord Jesus Christ who has made all of this possible.

 

If these people really believe what they say here, it would make it impossible for them to be controlled by Unification Church or Scientology …. but then, the question is, do they believe this? 

[Travis]

Heinrich Hochhalter wrote:

This is from the Cult Watch website:

What we believe

Here is a summary of what we believe.

Remember, always beware of any group that will not tell you openly and up front what they believe.

We believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be directly inspired by God, and inerrant in the original writings, and that they alone are of supreme and final authority in faith and life.

We believe in one God who is Creator of Heaven and Earth; who is Spirit, light, love, and truth, eternal, almighty, infallible and unchangeable, infinitely wise, just, and holy; and that God eternally exists in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

We believe in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, the Eternal Word manifested in flesh. We believe that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the virgin Mary, and that He is true God and true man.

We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice, and that all who believe in Him are justified on the basis of His shed blood.

We believe that our Lord arose from the dead, according to the Scriptures, and in the same body, though glorified, in which He had lived and died, and that His resurrection body is the pattern of that body which, at the return of Christ, will be given to all resurrected believers.

We believe that our Lord ascended to Heaven, was seated at His Father’s right hand, assuring us of the perfection of His work of redemption, and that He now, as head over all things to the Church, is engaged on behalf of the saved as Intercessor and Advocate.

We believe that man was originally created in the image and after the likeness of God, and that he fell through sin; and, as a consequence of his sin, lost his spiritual life, becoming dead in trespasses and sins, and that he became subject to the power of the devil. We also believe that this spiritual death, or total depravity of human nature, has been transmitted to the entire human race, the Man Jesus Christ being excepted; and hence all people are born into the world with a nature that has been corrupted in body, mind, and soul.

We believe that all who receive by faith, Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, and who confess Him as such before their fellow men, are born again of the Holy Spirit and thereby become children of God.

We believe that the Holy Spirit, being the Third Person of the Godhead, convicts men of sin, regenerates, indwells, baptises, seals, and sets believers apart to a holy life; that He keeps and empowers believers day by day. We believe that He is the Teacher of the Word of God and our Guide for daily life.

We believe in the eternal security and everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the eternal conscious punishment of the lost.

We believe that Christ instituted the ordinances of Baptism and the Lord’s Supper, to be observed until He comes.

We believe that the Church of Jesus Christ is composed solely of those who have been redeemed and washed in His Blood, regenerated and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and that they are saved to worship and to serve; that it is the responsibility and privilege of all who are saved to seek to win others to Christ, to the “uttermost part of Earth;” that they should seek to live a holy life, to separate themselves from and forsake all that might dishonour God, cast discredit on His cause, or weaken their testimony.

We believe there is a personal devil, a being of great and cunning power who is “The prince and power of the air,” “The prince of this world,” “The god of this age.” We believe that he can exert vast power but only as God permits him to do so; that he shall ultimately be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone and shall be tormented day and night forever.

Thanks to our Lord Jesus Christ who has made all of this possible.

 

If these people really believe what they say here, it would make it impossible for them to be controlled by Unification Church or Scientology …. but then, the question is, do they believe this? 

@Heinrich

They want you and I to believe, that they truly believe all these BS. That way we become one more faithful client to them. 

"We believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be directly inspired by God, and inerrant in the original writings, and that they alone are of supreme and final authority in faith and life."

History tells us that, the scriptures have been manipulated, translated, wrongfully translated, re-written and re-translated and still we don't open our eyes.  

How can an inspired scripture be a supreme and final Authority in Faith and Life.???

It's an inspiration and we can take from it, but it must not rule our entire existence.

But that's just me…

[emil]

If they believe in a future coming of Christ in His glorified risen body, there is no way it can be Unification. I don't know much about Scientology but I don't think it fits them either.

[Smurf]

I'm bumping this thread because of the Cult Research Center. This is a mock WMSCOG cult expert site misleading people into believing it has credible and unbiased information, when in reality it's only the cult itself, trying to convince everyone they are not a destructive sect.

More damage control. Weak attempt.

Step up your game, Kim Hyeon-ja.

[Anonymous]

Here is another response from Cult Watch:

Hi Heinrich

Cultwatch is in no way owned or influenced by the cults you have mentioned. If you read our statement of faith you'll see our beliefs are in no way compatible with these groups, and given that we feature the techniques of mind control on our site.

http://www.cultwatch.com/ 

It's unlikely that a group secretly run by them, as you have personally decided we are, would expose their modus operandi. Also, if you have done your research (using one of the various web archive sites for example), you will have seen that our old web site had a tab warning about the moonies, and that we have spoken against both groups you are concerned with in the media. The new version of our site is in development, and that is why there is less content. We are all volunteers and we are focusing on building the website in accordance with the road map we have set out; and most of our time is taken up answering emails.

BTW, you're incorrect about the Moonies or Scientology being the largest cults: the Mormons for example have 15 million members world wide, where as the Moonies at their height had around 50,000 members, and are now in decline after the death of their so called "Second Advent of Christ" . Read this New York Times article 

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/world/asia/rev-sun-myung-moon-founder-of-unification-church-dies-at-92.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 

 Also, regarding Scientology, you know their membership numbers are over inflated don't you? 

 

Cultwatch was founded in 1989 and became an Incorporated Charitable Trust in 1995. Again if you had done your research you could have easily discovered this since it is in the public domain. But to make it easier for you here is the New Zealand Companies Office Societies and Trust website: 

 

 Here you can search for us and see our incorporation data along with our trust document that includes the names and addresses of our board members; two of which are clergy in normal Christian churches and one of whom managed our largest Christian Radio station. Our society name is "Cultwatch" and our society number is 704806.

We do not fit the profile of the front groups run by the two cults you have mentioned.

In the future, before making unfounded accusations, try doing some basic research. 

We hope you allow this reply to be seen by all of the "larger community you mention", and that you are at least open to the idea that your idea about us could actually be wrong.

 

Best regards

The Cultwatch Team 

 

 

So it appears that this site is legit.  That NYTimes article is actually sympathetic to Moon, in my opinion.  And their estimate of 50,000 worldwide members of Moon's cult is way too low.  He has more members than that in South Korea alone!  No way he could have amassed such a fortune with that small of a worldwide group.  But anyway these guys are trying to help stop destructive mind control cults like WMSCOG, so that is a good thing.  But they are naive and way way way off in their under-estimation of Moon and his destructive cult.

[Simon]

maybe they dropped a zero?